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[98.138.91.143]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jn10si240756igb.3.2015.02.04.08.45.21 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Feb 2015 08:45:21 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 98.138.91.143 as permitted sender) client-ip=98.138.91.143; Received: from [98.138.100.102] by nm13.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Feb 2015 16:45:20 -0000 Received: from [98.138.86.157] by tm101.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Feb 2015 16:45:20 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1015.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Feb 2015 16:45:20 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 960996.76622.bm@omp1015.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: CkfI25AVM1lWvvvq7Z0etVkbLpxL0Ml51xcGV1rb9WENAVLxtUPw98dpm._YBVG 8CEyOADo_SjfJ5OjaIuVZUBX7bYGSbKpXmYVijoEToNqIYSm863IL9U_rRIr6KTWT5KWeSp1R5mC QFBmBE6WTp3vM1Pu9HcuRqwsqm_3nrwrb88mBFzxtSfLTMmhuUoZKYan9U8XU0srTCKzoipMX46I 4QwHM..hScSpr46OCr_udDPizw7ifuPjssblKnajsE5.tihkWNRwWCpLVJ05FS9WVMCW4xr9_WBs B8tUFYMwP9Xk14ljuVylJvkPURGRdRTalLRIxZJukUU8WWnQtXcGlPU4cG2WvTeZ80cq9XeEiBP1 gprRd2TOP26rww4AJUSKWFyvxM0JxCQ1d4SiASD727GtPB.6ylbUPHZUxc6gbtoZ5ohqz3dve4y. kvp5qZJPBx_t7oBHbDvTEfyWP_uJTt1HuTxYQYMW_SR4Y.RmxhDUT1C0sT7I_LcbXKgU9NjI1R8s AcDCwtNeRXNjEzihuQ4dwOyDild32HUo9U3FJFSqntsXXpm1a8FdGLs4bfOegxzzZ737RUYw_By1 ZAPyzwMt2mdREU4jq2wDzI0bp.ghcAGIuINVJwgicORY1heY18QJOD87tInfTFw4cvAfMI7h9dah 0TOdfH2d3uQpy07Vvif_pKMYm Received: by 98.138.105.215; Wed, 04 Feb 2015 16:45:20 +0000 Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 16:45:19 +0000 (UTC) From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Message-ID: <75841055.1348938.1423068319977.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Who did you pass on the road? 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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Since one of the points of TLG is to exploit this (and several other) logical howlers, translating it into Lojban (assuming its usual claims are reasonably accurate) is a model of pointless exercise. [...] Content analysis details: (0.7 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] 2.7 DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL RBL: Envelope sender listed in dnsbl.ahbl.org [listed in googlegroups.com.rhsbl.ahbl.org. IN] [A] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [209.85.213.55 listed in wl.mailspike.net] -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature -0.1 DKIM_VALID_AU Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders ------=_Part_1348937_1372352354.1423068319973 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since one of the points of TLG is to exploit this (and several other) logic= al howlers, translating it into Lojban (assuming its usual claims are reaso= nably accurate) is a model of pointless exercise. =20 On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 10:24 AM, And Rosta wrote: =20 =20 On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, selpa'i wrote: We're currently fixing the CLL (wanna help us?), and in going through chapt= er 16 I saw the quote from Through The Looking Glass; which reminded me of = my own (largely incomplete) Lojban translation of the same. ni'o =C2=ABlu do ma pu lampagre bu'u lo dargu =E2=80=94sei la noltrunau fau= lo nu farmuvgau lo xance lo notybei te zu'e tu'a lo cnino sudysrasu cu di'= a tavla=E2=80=94 li'u=C2=BB ni'o =C2=ABlu no da =E2=80=94sei la notybei cu cusku=E2=80=94 li'u=C2=BB ni'o =C2=ABlu ie =E2=80=94sei la noltrunau cu cusku=E2=80=94 .i lo vi citno= ninmu ku ji'a pu viska ra .i ja'o li'a no da masnymau do lo ka cadzu li'u= =C2=BB ni'o =C2=ABlu mi camtoi =E2=80=94sei la notybei cu nalgleki tonga cusku=E2= =80=94 .i mi birti lo du'u no da mutce lo ka sutrymau mi lo ka cadzu li'u= =C2=BB ni'o =C2=ABlu na cumki =E2=80=94sei la noltrunau cu cusku=E2=80=94 .i ja da= 'i ra pu pa moi tolcliva ti li'u=C2=BB 'Who did you pass on the road?' the King went on, holding out his hand to t= he Messenger for some more hay. 'Nobody,' said the Messenger. 'Quite right,' said the King: 'this young lady saw him too. So of course No= body walks slower than you.' 'I do my best,' the Messenger said in a sulky tone. 'I'm sure nobody walks = much faster than I do!' 'He can't do that,' said the King, 'or else he'd have been here first. It makes no sense in Lojban, which of course is the point, but in English o= ne can read "Nobody" as a name. This ambiguity is lost in the Lojban. Howev= er, using {la no da} would have been really bad, so I stuck with just {no d= a}. Let's say it's the King's fault, not Lojban's. :) =C2=A0=C2=A0I think you could try using "lo no prenu" rather than "no da", = "py" for "Nobody", and "lo no prenu poi=C2=A0mutce lo ka...." for=C2=A0the = last "nobody".=C2=A0--And.=C2=A0--=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_1348937_1372352354.1423068319973 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Since one of the points of TLG is to e= xploit this (and several other) logical howlers, translating it into Lojban= (assuming its usual claims are reasonably accurate) is a model of pointles= s exercise.



On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 10:24 AM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gm= ail.com> wrote:



On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:13 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
We're currently fixing the CLL (w= anna help us?), and in going through chapter 16 I saw the quote from Throug= h The Looking Glass; which reminded me of my own (largely incomplete) Lojba= n translation of the same.


ni'o =C2=ABlu do ma pu lampagre bu'u lo dargu =E2=80=94sei la noltrunau fau= lo nu farmuvgau lo xance lo notybei te zu'e tu'a lo cnino sudysrasu cu di'= a tavla=E2=80=94 li'u=C2=BB
ni'o =C2=ABlu no da =E2=80=94sei la notybei cu cusku=E2=80=94 li'u=C2=BB ni'o =C2=ABlu ie =E2=80=94sei la noltrunau cu cusku=E2=80=94 .i lo vi citno= ninmu ku ji'a pu viska ra .i ja'o li'a no da masnymau do lo ka cadzu li'u= =C2=BB
ni'o =C2=ABlu mi camtoi =E2=80=94sei la notybei cu nalgleki tonga cusku=E2= =80=94 .i mi birti lo du'u no da mutce lo ka sutrymau mi lo ka cadzu li'u= =C2=BB
ni'o =C2=ABlu na cumki =E2=80=94sei la noltrunau cu cusku=E2=80=94 .i ja da= 'i ra pu pa moi tolcliva ti li'u=C2=BB


'Who did you pass on the road?' the King went on, holding out his hand to t= he Messenger for some more hay.
'Nobody,' said the Messenger.
'Quite right,' said the King: 'this young lady saw him too. So of course No= body walks slower than you.'
'I do my best,' the Messenger said in a sulky tone. 'I'm sure nobody walks = much faster than I do!'
'He can't do that,' said the King, 'or else he'd have been here first.


It makes no sense in Lojban, which of course is the point, but in English o= ne can read "Nobody" as a name. This ambiguity is lost in the Lojban. Howev= er, using {la no da} would have been really bad, so I stuck with just {no d= a}. Let's say it's the King's fault, not Lojban's. :)

 
 
I think you could try u= sing "lo no prenu" rather than "no da", "py" for "Nobody", and "lo no prenu= poi mutce lo ka...." for the last "nobody".
 
--And. 
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--
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