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Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2015 19:22:47 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [Llg-members] nu ningau so'u se jbovlaste / updating
 a few jbovlaste entries
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 Content preview:  On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:41 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban
    < lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote: > As a minor practical suggestion, I note
    that starting from the logicl form > and working back to the phonological
    realization is, in one repect easier > than 'tother way 'round, since you
    have a certainty for a start. > [...] 
 
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On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:41 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban <
lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> As a minor practical suggestion, I note that starting from the logicl form
> and working back to the phonological realization is, in one repect easier
> than 'tother way 'round, since you have a certainty for a start.
>

Yes, going from the logical form (FOPL?) to _one_ phonological realization
in Lojban is trivial.


>  Of course, you then have a variety of ways that things can go, since one
> form gives rise to a large number of different phonological strings.
>

That's the tricky part. For example, it is trivial to go from, say P(x,y)
to "ko'a broda ko'e", but then giving rules to generate all the logically
equivalent sentences "broda fa ko'a ko'e", "fe ko'e fa ko'a broda", "ko'a
cu se se broda fe ko'e", and so on ad infinitum, is non-trivial.


>  But  each difference is achieved (ideally) in a unique way and a suitable
> grammar will require marks for exactly those unique steps and no others,
> for a significant net savings compared to the present systems (it seems to
> me, who am often annoyed by what seem to be irrelevant requirements put in
> because they ae useful somewhere sometime).
>

It's not obvious to me that this direction is easier, but nothing is
stopping anyone who wants to try it.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 1:41 PM, &#39;John E Clifford&#39; via lojban <span =
dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank=
">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div><div style=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helv=
eticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size=
:16px"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>As a minor practical suggestion, I note that =
starting from the logicl form and working back to the phonological realizat=
ion is, in one repect easier than &#39;tother way &#39;round, since you hav=
e a certainty for a start. </span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div><div>Yes, going from the logical form (FOPL?) to _one_ phonological re=
alization in Lojban is trivial.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-fa=
mily:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;=
font-size:16px"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>=C2=A0Of course, you then have a var=
iety of ways that things can go, since one form gives rise to a large numbe=
r of different phonological strings. </span></div></div></div></blockquote>=
<div><br></div><div>That&#39;s the tricky part. For example, it is trivial =
to go from, say P(x,y) to &quot;ko&#39;a broda ko&#39;e&quot;, but then giv=
ing rules to generate all the logically equivalent sentences &quot;broda fa=
 ko&#39;a ko&#39;e&quot;, &quot;fe ko&#39;e fa ko&#39;a broda&quot;, &quot;=
ko&#39;a cu se se broda fe ko&#39;e&quot;, and so on ad infinitum, is non-t=
rivial.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v style=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helve=
tica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><span>=C2=A0But =C2=A0each difference is achieved (ideally) in a u=
nique way and a suitable grammar will require marks for exactly those uniqu=
e steps and no others, for a significant net savings compared to the presen=
t systems (it seems to me, who am often annoyed by what seem to be irreleva=
nt requirements put in because they ae useful somewhere sometime).</span></=
div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s not obvious to me=
 that this direction is easier, but nothing is stopping anyone who wants to=
 try it.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div>=C2=A0=
</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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