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[2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id v6si972067wiz.2.2015.02.09.02.44.50 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Feb 2015 02:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::230; Received: by mail-wi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id hm9so5041532wib.3 for ; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 02:44:50 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.195.13.197 with SMTP id fa5mr41237237wjd.41.1423478690179; Mon, 09 Feb 2015 02:44:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.86.200 with HTTP; Mon, 9 Feb 2015 02:44:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2015 13:44:28 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] the myth of monoparsing To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0dc7eac72ad050ea575bc X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.8 X-Spam_score_int: 8 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: 2015-02-07 19:33 GMT+03:00 And Rosta : > > On 7 Feb 2015 06:24, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote: > > > > > > 2015-02-06 22:53 GMT+03:00 And Rosta : > >> > >> If that's true -- I haven't checked (and couldn't because I don't > understand the Lojban) -- then it's coincidence. > > > > > > Sorry but if you don't understand Lojban then ... why all this > discussion here? > > I mainly got involved because you seemed not to understand English or > linguistics, and I'd hoped my involvement might serve to enlighten. > [...] Content analysis details: (0.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. 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If someone doesn't understand both sides then the judgement will be anything but fair and reasonable. > > I was trying to show how Lojban parsers deal with another level of > analysing text. > > > > If you can't compare two languages then how can you say what's going on > in Lojban? > > > > It's a must to understand what {lo se xi vei mo'e zo'e nei} means. > > It sounds like it would be useful, yes, and perhaps in due course it might > occur to you to offer an explanation of what it means. > {mo'e zo'e} is a vague number. It can have any value, e.g. {pa} (which means 1 in Lojban) , {re} (2), 3 etc. {lo nei} refers to the first place of the current clause. {lo se nei} refers to the second place of the current clause. {lo se xi vei pa nei} is the same as {lo nei}. {lo se xi vei re nei} is the same as {lo se nei}. Now let's replace in {lo se xi vei mo'e zo'e nei} this {mo'e zo'e} with a precise number, e.g. {pa} or {re} We get {lo se xi vei pa nei} {lo se xi vei re nei} Thus if we replace vague numbers with precise numbers we get several possible interpretations of the sentence that correspond to different parses of English sentence in may be all known English parsers. I'm fine with both interpretations. Both seems useful to me. But as I said in an earlier message, since Lojban is committed to being > monoparsing, that Lojban sentence will monoparse, and its continuing > relevance is not obvious. You explained why you thought it was the same as > the English example, and I endeavored to explain why everybody else thinks > otherwise. > Because everybody else parses it in a different way having a different understanding and tools. > --And. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bf0dc7eac72ad050ea575bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-02-07 19:33 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:


On 7 Feb 2015 06:24, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>= wrote:
>
>
> 2015-02-06 22:53 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:
>>
>> If that's true -- I haven't checked (and couldn't beca= use I don't understand the Lojban) -- then it's coincidence.
>
>
> Sorry but if you don't understand Lojban then ... why all this dis= cussion here?

I mainly got involved because you seemed not to under= stand English or linguistics, and I'd hoped my involvement might serve = to enlighten.


Okay but I was comparing = Lojban with English.
If someone doesn't understand both sides= then the judgement will be anything but fair and reasonable.=C2=A0

> I was trying to show how Lojban parsers deal with anoth= er level of analysing text.
>
> If you can't compare two languages then how can you say what's= going on in Lojban?
>
> It's a must to understand what {lo se xi vei mo'e zo'e nei= } means.

It sounds like it would be useful, yes, and perhaps i= n due course it might occur to you to offer an explanation of what it means= .


{mo'e zo'e} is a vague number= . It can have any value, e.g. {pa} (which means 1 in Lojban) , {re} (2), 3 = etc.

{lo nei} refers to the first place of the cur= rent clause.
{lo se nei} refers to the second place of the curren= t clause.
{lo se xi vei pa nei} is the same as {lo nei}.
{= lo se xi vei re nei} is the same as {lo se nei}.

Now let's replace in {lo se xi vei mo'e zo'e nei} this {mo&#= 39;e zo'e} with a precise number, e.g. {pa} or {re}

We get=C2=A0
{lo se xi vei pa nei}
{lo se xi vei = re nei}

Thus if we replace vague numbers with = precise numbers we get several possible interpretations of the sentence tha= t correspond to different parses of English sentence in may be all known En= glish parsers.

I'm fine with both interpretati= ons.

Both seems useful to me.

=

But as I said in an earlier message, since Lojban is committ= ed to being monoparsing, that Lojban sentence will monoparse, and its conti= nuing relevance is not obvious. You explained why you thought it was the sa= me as the English example, and I endeavored to explain why everybody else t= hinks otherwise.


Because everybody else= parses it in a different way having a different understanding and tools.
=C2=A0

--And.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--047d7bf0dc7eac72ad050ea575bc--