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Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2015 18:48:06 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {detri}
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> =E2=80=A2 { .i detri fa li re no no bi pi'e mu pi'e re mu }
> =E2=80=A2 { li pa no pi'e vo no cu tcika fo mi }
>
> However, does the {detri} sentence actually have the intended meaning?
> Isn't {me'o} more appropriate than {li} for expressing dates?
>

I think dates (and times) are coordinates in a one-dimensional time axis,
so I think {li} is right. Coordinates are numbers, not expressions. So for
example the expressions "2008-05-25" and "May 25, 2008" both refer to the
same date, even though they are different expressions (different me'o, same
li).

In sentences such as { detri fa li re no no bi pi'e mu pi'e re mu }, it
> seems that the date expression "2008:5:25" is first evaluated into a pure
> number (using some unspecified base),
>
and then given to detri-x1, in which case detri-x4 seems to become
> completely useless, as it cannot be applied to any numeric expression (as
> all is given to it as input is a pure number). { detri fa li re no no bi
> pi'e mu pi'e re mu fo ko'a } would then be about as meaningful as { li ze
> no no no no no cu detri fo ko'a }.
>

I take detri4 (or detri3 rather, since I take detri to have only three
places) as the reference frame, not a place to indicate how to read the
expression used to refer to the detri1. Basically it should tell you what
the origin and the units are. How to read the li-expression is something
that one must already know. Just as one knows that in "li pa no" the first
digit is for tens and the second for units, one should know that in "li re
no no bi pi'e mu pi'e re mu" the digits show year-month-day. If you are
using some non-standard or not well-known notation to refer to a date, you
would have to explain it, but basically in the same way you would have to
explain any non-standard expression you use to refer to anything else. I
think we need to keep the date separate from the words used to refer to it.
detri1 is the date, not the words used to refer to it. You could use a
different expression like "la'o gy May 25, 2008 gy" to refer to the same
date that "li re no no bi pi'e mu pi'e re no" refers to.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-le=
ft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    =E2=80=A2 { .i detri fa li re no no bi pi&#39;e mu pi&#39;e re mu }<br>
    =E2=80=A2 { li pa no pi&#39;e vo no cu tcika fo mi }<br>
    <br>
    However, does the {detri} sentence actually have the intended
    meaning? Isn&#39;t {me&#39;o} more appropriate than {li} for expressing
    dates?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think dates (and tim=
es) are coordinates in a one-dimensional time axis, so I think {li} is righ=
t. Coordinates are numbers, not expressions. So for example the expressions=
 &quot;2008-05-25&quot; and &quot;May 25, 2008&quot; both refer to the same=
 date, even though they are different expressions (different me&#39;o, same=
 li).</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)=
;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D=
"#FFFFFF">
    In sentences such as { detri fa li re no no bi pi&#39;e mu pi&#39;e re =
mu },
    it seems that the date expression &quot;2008:5:25&quot; is first evalua=
ted
    into a pure number (using some unspecified base),=C2=A0</div></blockquo=
te><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">and then give=
n to
    detri-x1, in which case detri-x4 seems to become completely useless,
    as it cannot be applied to any numeric expression (as all is given
    to it as input is a pure number). { detri fa li re no no bi pi&#39;e mu
    pi&#39;e re mu fo ko&#39;a } would then be about as meaningful as { li =
ze no
    no no no no cu detri fo ko&#39;a }.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div>I take detri4 (or detri3 rather, since I take detri to have only thr=
ee places) as the reference frame, not a place to indicate how to read the =
expression used to refer to the detri1. Basically it should tell you what t=
he origin and the units are. How to read the li-expression is something tha=
t one must already know. Just as one knows that in &quot;li pa no&quot; the=
 first digit is for tens and the second for units, one should know that in =
&quot;li re no no bi pi&#39;e mu pi&#39;e re mu&quot; the digits show year-=
month-day. If you are using some non-standard or not well-known notation to=
 refer to a date, you would have to explain it, but basically in the same w=
ay you would have to explain any non-standard expression you use to refer t=
o anything else. I think we need to keep the date separate from the words u=
sed to refer to it. detri1 is the date, not the words used to refer to it. =
You could use a different expression like &quot;la&#39;o gy May 25, 2008 gy=
&quot; to refer to the same date that &quot;li re no no bi pi&#39;e mu pi&#=
39;e re no&quot; refers to.<br></div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e =
xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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