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Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2015 14:49:18 +0100
From: Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>
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Subject: [lojban] On the meanings of the causal gismu
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=E2=80=A2 jalge =3D x1 (action/event/state) is a result/outcome/conclusion =
of=20
antecedent x2 (event/state/process). =E2=80=94=E2=80=94 Also: x2 gives rise=
 to x1 (=3D=20
selja'e for reordered places); total (general meaning, but also =3D=20
mekyja'e, pi'irja'e, sujyja'e).
=E2=80=A2 rinka =3D x1 (event/state) effects/physically causes effect x2=20
(event/state) under conditions x3. =E2=80=94=E2=80=94 x1 is a material cond=
ition for x2;=20
x1 gives rise to x2.
=E2=80=A2 banzu =3D x1 (object) suffices/is enough/sufficient for purpose x=
2 under=20
conditions x3.
=E2=80=A2 bapli =3D x1 [force] (ka) forces/compels event x2 to occur; x1=20
determines property x2 to manifest. =E2=80=94=E2=80=94 Also constrains; req=
uires=20
success, unlike the physics term (better expressed by danre).
=E2=80=A2 danre =3D x1 (force) puts pressure on/presses/applies force to x2=
. |>>>=20
Agentive press/depress (=3D da'ergau, da'erzu'e).


=E2=80=94 What is the semantic difference between {selja'e}, {rinka} and=20
{bapli}? Does {selja'e} express a weaker relation than that expressed by=20
{rinka}?

=E2=80=94 The notes of {rinka} say it is a material condition; however, a t=
rue=20
logical material condition (ganai...gi...) does not express any=20
causal/physical relationship (if I'm not mistaken), which seems to=20
contradict the main definition of {rinka}. So, does {rinka} entails a=20
causal relationship?

=E2=80=94 Is {danre} the right word for the physics notion of "force"? If s=
o,=20
what {bapli} is all about?

=E2=80=94 Which of the three below meanings should {banzu} have? (All of th=
e=20
below meanings are used in actual usage, making {banzu} a polysemous=20
predicate.)
1) That x1 happens is a sufficient condition for x2 to happen.
2) The amount x1 (ni) is great enough for x2 to happen.
3) The amount of x1 having property x2 is great enough for x3 to happen.

#1 parallels {sarcu} and seems redundant to {rinka}; #2 is the same=20
thing as {banzuni} <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/banzuni>; #3=20
parallels the meaning/usage for {dukse}, and sometimes {banzuka} is used=20
for this meaning.


Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Best regards, Ilmen.


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<html>
  <head>

    <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8=
">
  </head>
  <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    <table style=3D"border: solid 1px black; background-color: #DDFFFF;"
      cellpadding=3D"4">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td><font color=3D"#003366">=E2=80=A2 jalge =3D x1 (action/event/=
state) is
              a result/outcome/conclusion of antecedent x2
              (event/state/process). =E2=80=94=E2=80=94 Also: x2 gives rise=
 to x1 (=3D
              selja'e for reordered places); total (general meaning, but
              also =3D mekyja'e, pi'irja'e, sujyja'e).<br>
              =E2=80=A2 rinka =3D x1 (event/state) effects/physically cause=
s
              effect x2 (event/state) under conditions x3. =E2=80=94=E2=80=
=94 x1 is a
              material condition for x2; x1 gives rise to x2.<br>
              =E2=80=A2 banzu =3D x1 (object) suffices/is enough/sufficient=
 for
              purpose x2 under conditions x3.<br>
              =E2=80=A2 bapli =3D x1 [force] (ka) forces/compels event x2 t=
o
              occur; x1 determines property x2 to manifest. =E2=80=94=E2=80=
=94 Also
              constrains; requires success, unlike the physics term
              (better expressed by danre).<br>
              =E2=80=A2 danre =3D x1 (force) puts pressure on/presses/appli=
es
              force to x2. |&gt;&gt;&gt; Agentive press/depress (=3D
              da'ergau, da'erzu'e).</font><br>
          </td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
    <br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=94 What is the semantic difference between {selja'e}, {rinka} an=
d
    {bapli}? Does {selja'e} express a weaker relation than that
    expressed by {rinka}?<br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=94 The notes of {rinka} say it is a material condition; however,=
 a
    true logical material condition (ganai...gi...) does not express any
    causal/physical relationship (if I'm not mistaken), which seems to
    contradict the main definition of {rinka}. So, does {rinka} entails
    a causal relationship?<br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=94 Is {danre} the right word for the physics notion of "force"? =
If
    so, what {bapli} is all about?<br>
    <br>
    =E2=80=94 Which of the three below meanings should {banzu} have? (All o=
f the
    below meanings are used in actual usage, making {banzu} a polysemous
    predicate.)<br>
    1) That x1 happens is a sufficient condition for x2 to happen.<br>
    2) The amount x1 (ni) is great enough for x2 to happen.<br>
    3) The amount of x1 having property x2 is great enough for x3 to
    happen.<br>
    <br>
    #1 parallels {sarcu} and seems redundant to {rinka}; #2 is the same
    thing as <a href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/banzuni">{banzuni}=
</a>;
    #3 parallels the meaning/usage for {dukse}, and sometimes {banzuka}
    is used for this meaning.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.<br>
    <br>
    Best regards, Ilmen.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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