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Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:23:31 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Two meanings of {bu}
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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  I think maybe you are misunderstanding the use of "bu".  It means one
thing, and one thing only.  It changes the last word into a letteral
symbol.  "nubu" "slakabu" "kybu" etc are no different than "ebu" or "my" in
that regard.  "VALSI bu" is equivalent to a BY, period.

  Now, that being said, a BY (or equivalently, a "valsi bu") used as a
sumti (terbri) refers to something previous.  The only question is what.

  There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying, for example, "lo gerku goi
by cu klama lo zarci. i by blanu" (The dog, which we will refer to as B,
goes to the store.  B is blue.) It is exactly the same thing as "lo gerku
goi la sam  cu klama lo zarci .i la sam blanu" or "lo gerku goi ko'a cu
klama lo zarci .i ko'a blanu"  And yes, "lo gerku goi denpa bu cu klama lo
zarci .i denpa bu blanu"

  The only difference in usage is for *implicit* assignment.  Using a
letteral without a previous "goi" assignemnt is presumed to stand for the
last thing starting with that letter. ("lo gerku cu klama lo zarci .i gy
blanu") But I could certainly just say "mi xabju slaka bu" and leave you
scratching your head as to what "," referred to.  But it always resolves
(when used as a terbri) as "the thing designated by the label "," " (unless
you have preceeded it by a me'o.

         --gejyspa


On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
wrote:

> 1. {bu} is used after vowels to anaphorically reference LA/LE-sumti with
> sumti tails that start with the same vowel.
> 2. {bu} is proposed by gejyspa in {nu bu} and {du'u bu} to reference sumti
> that have sumti tails that start (or probably contain at main level) {nu}
> or {du'u} abstractions.
>
> This immediately raises a question: can a {nu bu} according to rule 1.
> reference {lo nupre}? If not 2. is indeed a new rule.
>
> 3. {bu} is proposed to be used in mekso to reference certain symbols like
> {.alfas. bu} for alpha. Probably it's about {me'o .alfas. bu} since we are
> talking about formulae. In this case it doesn't conflict with 1. and 2. and
> just adds this new third rule, namely, that inside {me'o} strings such
> constructs as {abu}, {nu bu}, {.alfas. bu} get a new meaning strictly
> defined in the dictionary.
>
> 4. Using {denpa bu} for "dot" without {me'o} can't fit into rules 1. and
> 2. From rule 1. and 2. we can assume that it anaphorically references
> {LE/LA denpa}. Neither using {.alfas. bu} without {me'o} can reference the
> symbol alpha. Instead, it would reference {la .alfas.}.
>
> 5. Neither {uibu} can be used without {me'o} to denote smileys.
>
> If {denpa bu} and {.alfas. bu} can be used without {me'o} to reference
> dots and alpha symbols then a,e,i,o,u, nu,du'u are exclusions to this rule.
> And in this case we aren't able to reference "a" as a symbol without {me'o}
> since {abu} is always an anaphorical marker.
>
> So my proposal is:
> 1. to always use {me'o} to reference symbols or to use fu'ivla for them
> like {denpabu} and {slakabu}.
> 2. The letteral meanings of uibu, denpa bu, slaka bu are to be defined in
> the dictionary.
> 3. {denpa bu} means {lo denpa} referenced anaphorically, it is close to
> {le} explained here
> <http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=%27%27%27le%27%27%27_as_an_anaphorical_particle> or
> ri'oi <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/ri'oi>. But even more correctly
> would be to show two examples identical in meaning:
>
> a) {lo denpa cu pendo mi .ije dy. xendo}
> b) {lo denpa cu pendo mi .ije denpa bu xendo}
>
> Clearly, {denpa bu prenu bu} would reference {lo denpa prenu} (no matter
> how often one would need that).
>
> {mi bu} would refer to {lo mi broda}.
>
> {ca bu} would refer to {lo ca broda} or {i ca broda} and thus be similar
> to {lo go'oi <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/go'oi>}.
>
> Interesting that in past people suggested using different {SOMETHING bu}
> to mark keyboard keys. No wonder {a bu} was never suggested as a name of A
> keyboard key because it's already taken by an anaphorical construct.
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 I think maybe you are misunderstanding the use of &=
quot;bu&quot;.=C2=A0 It means one thing, and one thing only.=C2=A0 It chang=
es the last word into a letteral symbol. =C2=A0&quot;nubu&quot; &quot;slaka=
bu&quot; &quot;kybu&quot; etc are no different than &quot;ebu&quot; or &quo=
t;my&quot; in that regard. =C2=A0&quot;VALSI bu&quot; is equivalent to a BY=
, period.<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 Now, that being said, a BY (or equivale=
ntly, a &quot;valsi bu&quot;) used as a sumti (terbri) refers to something =
previous.=C2=A0 The only question is what.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =
There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying, for example, &quot;lo gerku =
goi by cu klama lo zarci. i by blanu&quot; (The dog, which we will refer to=
 as B, goes to the store.=C2=A0 B is blue.) It is exactly the same thing as=
 &quot;lo gerku goi la sam =C2=A0cu klama lo zarci .i la sam blanu&quot; or=
 &quot;lo gerku goi ko&#39;a cu klama lo zarci .i ko&#39;a blanu&quot; =C2=
=A0And yes, &quot;lo gerku goi denpa bu cu klama lo zarci .i denpa bu blanu=
&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 The only difference in usage is for =
<i>implicit</i>=C2=A0assignment.=C2=A0 Using a letteral without a previous =
&quot;goi&quot; assignemnt is presumed to stand for the last thing starting=
 with that letter. (&quot;lo gerku cu klama lo zarci .i gy blanu&quot;) But=
 I could certainly just say &quot;mi xabju slaka bu&quot; and leave you scr=
atching your head as to what &quot;,&quot; referred to.=C2=A0 But it always=
 resolves (when used as a terbri) as &quot;the thing designated by the labe=
l &quot;,&quot; &quot; (unless you have preceeded it by a me&#39;o.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa</div><div><br=
></div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr=
">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki=
.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x"><div dir=3D"ltr">1. {bu} is used after vowels to anaphorically reference=
 LA/LE-sumti with sumti tails that start with the same vowel.<div>2. {bu} i=
s proposed by gejyspa in {nu bu} and {du&#39;u bu} to reference sumti that =
have sumti tails that start (or probably contain at main level) {nu} or {du=
&#39;u} abstractions.</div><div><br></div><div>This immediately raises a qu=
estion: can a {nu bu} according to rule 1. reference {lo nupre}? If not 2. =
is indeed a new rule.</div><div><br></div><div>3. {bu} is proposed to be us=
ed in mekso to reference certain symbols like {.alfas. bu} for alpha. Proba=
bly it&#39;s about {me&#39;o .alfas. bu} since we are talking about formula=
e. In this case it doesn&#39;t conflict with 1. and 2. and just adds this n=
ew third rule, namely, that inside {me&#39;o} strings such constructs as {a=
bu}, {nu bu}, {.alfas. bu} get a new meaning strictly defined in the dictio=
nary.</div><div><br></div><div>4. Using {denpa bu} for &quot;dot&quot; with=
out {me&#39;o} can&#39;t fit into rules 1. and 2. From rule 1. and 2. we ca=
n assume that it anaphorically references {LE/LA denpa}. Neither using {.al=
fas. bu} without {me&#39;o} can reference the symbol alpha. Instead, it wou=
ld reference {la .alfas.}.</div><div><br></div><div>5. Neither {uibu} can b=
e used without {me&#39;o} to denote smileys.</div><div><br></div><div>If {d=
enpa bu} and {.alfas. bu} can be used without {me&#39;o} to reference dots =
and alpha symbols then a,e,i,o,u, nu,du&#39;u are exclusions to this rule. =
And in this case we aren&#39;t able to reference &quot;a&quot; as a symbol =
without {me&#39;o} since {abu} is always an anaphorical marker.</div><div><=
br></div><div>So my proposal is:<br></div><div>1. to always use {me&#39;o} =
to reference symbols or to use fu&#39;ivla for them like {denpabu} and {sla=
kabu}.</div><div>2. The letteral meanings of uibu, denpa bu, slaka bu are t=
o be defined in the dictionary.</div><div>3. {denpa bu} means {lo denpa} re=
ferenced anaphorically, it is close to {le} explained <a href=3D"http://mw.=
lojban.org/index.php?title=3D%27%27%27le%27%27%27_as_an_anaphorical_particl=
e" target=3D"_blank">here</a>=C2=A0or <a href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.or=
g/dict/ri&#39;oi" target=3D"_blank">ri&#39;oi</a>. But even more correctly =
would be to show two examples identical in meaning:</div><div><br></div><di=
v>a) {lo denpa cu pendo mi .ije dy. xendo}</div><div>b)=C2=A0{lo denpa cu p=
endo mi .ije denpa bu xendo}</div><div><br></div><div>Clearly, {denpa bu pr=
enu bu} would reference {lo denpa prenu} (no matter how often one would nee=
d that).</div><div><br></div><div>{mi bu} would refer to {lo mi broda}.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>{ca bu} would refer to {lo ca broda} or {i ca broda} =
and thus be similar to {lo <a href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/go&#=
39;oi" target=3D"_blank">go&#39;oi</a>}.</div><div><br></div><div>Interesti=
ng that in past people suggested using different {SOMETHING bu} to mark key=
board keys. No wonder {a bu} was never suggested as a name of A keyboard ke=
y because it&#39;s already taken by an anaphorical construct.</div></div><s=
pan class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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