Received: from mail-lb0-f189.google.com ([209.85.217.189]:33111) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YiOjX-0004KL-GZ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:12 -0700 Received: by lbio15 with SMTP id o15sf14436716lbi.0 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=H1ptpvwh36yME6m3YcFP7fmAH85cxAjNg5Bj75YTH7E=; b=nSCennSSi2JZjT+s2ix6o8JK4188aRA298+ozUnD4aFx7rxBLuMGx4mAguuHFmv7rY IR4C3PdcPEJtEX63LfuRvx/BpPaDGaq2o6YiidoXSq2DBjuo4QjT4iN4xhlMeoeo2hHb eD9dcPm/JpBF7o6nwBFseahfjICUXcUvJMP5y3x/6tmUhkhP2QL3YlW5F+XGpQOkkn6F zJDG5xZ/ia+TaxovAhR4cyuQSs9u757x39KefDILbo5N6cUpKF1MKWCdLs4PFhMI0zfW a4oALdLuGB7S7ox4dord5QlqL5llxes6SdFa4acjDxKXRhGxuy0Tr+n7bpgzB3icRi2Q X1mA== X-Received: by 10.180.109.13 with SMTP id ho13mr49470wib.16.1429109760546; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.181.23.195 with SMTP id ic3ls631103wid.49.canary; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.7.138 with SMTP id j10mr4284891wia.2.1429109760139; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22e.google.com (mail-wg0-x22e.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p9si673690wiz.3.2015.04.15.07.56.00 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e; Received: by mail-wg0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id o15so49854977wgy.2 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.9.98 with SMTP id y2mr51611491wja.85.1429109760035; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:56:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.240.197 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:55:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4144143.LNURNV54kV@caracal> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:55:39 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] star (shape) To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d8dab9793da0513c48b30 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7b5d8dab9793da0513c48b30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2015-04-15 17:46 GMT+03:00 MorphemeAddict : > Then I must have weird eyes, because I don't see them that way. > But others do. Stars have always been depicted with spikes long before the invention of telescope. Lens fibers are likely candidates for this phenomenon since as Helmholtz noticed point source of light has different shape in left and right eye. Maybe you can confirm it when looking at something other than stars? And photographs do show points on stars, especially very bright ones. > > stevo > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> 2015-04-15 17:27 GMT+03:00 MorphemeAddict : >> >>> Gleki, you said "Anyway, I can't see any language that would >>> distinguish them probably because human eye sees every star in the sky >>> except the Sun with protrusions i.e. as a "star polygon"." >>> >>> I disagree. I would say that people see NO star (or planet) as having >>> protrusions. They're just bright points. Camera/photographic artifacts do >>> add points sometimes. >>> >> >> No, human eye does see them with protrusions. Camera obviously doesn't. >> Human eye sees them that way. That's how it is constructed. >> >> >>> >>> stevo >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:28 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 2015-04-15 7:39 GMT+03:00 Pierre Abbat : >>>> >>>>> The word "star" is polysemous: >>>>> 1. a heavenly body that emits light; >>>>> 2. a non-convex shape that has a point from which all the inside can >>>>> be seen; >>>>> 3. a chief or excellent performer. >>>>> Sense 1 is {tarci}. Sense 3 could be expressed by a lujvo, which I >>>>> won't worry >>>>> about right now. Sense 2, I think, deserves a gismu, but doesn't have >>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>> I think that sense 2 deserves a gismu because it appears in several >>>>> compounds: >>>>> >>>> >>>> Definition: x1 is a star non-convex polygon with x2 (number) regular >>>> pointy protrusions and x2 indentations. >>>> >>>> Or should we use a separate brivla for x2 to parallel other geometrical >>>> mostly one-place brivla (ignoring "material" places)? >>>> Or put it another way should geometry brivla parallel each other in >>>> their place structure? >>>> A separate question how do we define star being a regular one? Using >>>> {kubli}, right? >>>> >>>> Anyway, I can't see any language that would distinguish them probably >>>> because human eye sees every star in the sky except the Sun with >>>> protrusions i.e. as a "star polygon". >>>> >>>> {stela} and {estrela} come to mind but they are taken by semantics of >>>> {tarci} so it's be impolite to steal them. {stelatai} maybe. >>>> >>>> Asterisk would be probably {astrisko}. >>>> >>>> Also I can't find a word for "celestial body" in general like >>>> "planet/star/dwarf planet/comet", {se kensa} is probably enough but {astro} >>>> hasnt been taken by anything yet. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> starfish, star-nosed mole, stellated polyhedron. What do you think? >>>>> What would >>>>> be a good word for it? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Something that would have mnemonic power but wouldn't be a false >>>> friend. E.g. in Esperanto they usually change a vowel or a consonant so >>>> that two meanings get separated. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pierre >>>>> -- >>>>> Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b5d8dab9793da0513c48b30 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-04-15 17:46 GMT+03:00 MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:
Then I must have weird eyes, because I don&= #39;t see them that way.=C2=A0

= But others do. Stars have always been depicted with spikes long before the = invention of telescope. Lens fibers are likely candidates for this phenomen= on since as Helmholtz noticed point source of light has different shape in = left and right eye.
Maybe you can confirm it when looking at something o= ther than stars?


A= nd photographs do show points on stars, especially very bright ones.=C2=A0<= /div>

stevo

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <= gleki.is.my= .name@gmail.com> wrote:


2015-04-15 17:27 GMT+03:00 MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>= ;:
Gleki, you said "Anyway, I= can't see any language that would distinguish them probably because hu= man eye sees every star in the sky except the Sun with protrusions i.e. as = a "star polygon"."

I disagree. I would say that people see NO sta= r (or planet) as having protrusions. They're just bright points. Camera= /photographic artifacts do add points sometimes.=C2=A0

No, human eye does see them with prot= rusions. Camera obviously doesn't.
Human eye sees them that w= ay. That's how it is constructed.
=C2=A0

stevo

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:28 AM,= Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:=


2015-04-15 7:39 GMT+03:00 Pier= re Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:
The word = "star" is polysemous:
1. a heavenly body that emits light;
2. a non-convex shape that has a point from which all the inside can be see= n;
3. a chief or excellent performer.
Sense 1 is {tarci}. Sense 3 could be expressed by a lujvo, which I won'= t worry
about right now. Sense 2, I think, deserves a gismu, but doesn't have o= ne.

I think that sense 2 deserves a gismu because it appears in several compoun= ds:

Definition: x1 is a star non-conve= x polygon with x2 (number) regular pointy protrusions and x2 indentations.<= br>
Or should we use a separate brivla for x2 to parallel other geometri= cal mostly one-place brivla (ignoring "material" places)?
Or p= ut it another way should geometry brivla parallel each other in their place= structure?
A separate question how do we define star being a regular on= e? Using {kubli}, right?

Anyway, I can't see any language that w= ould distinguish them probably because human eye sees every star in the sky= except the Sun with protrusions i.e. as a "star polygon".
{stela} and {estrela} come to mind but they are taken by semantics of {tar= ci} so it's be impolite to steal them. {stelatai} maybe.

Asteris= k would be probably {astrisko}.

Also I can't find a word for &qu= ot;celestial body" in general like "planet/star/dwarf planet/come= t", {se kensa} is probably enough but {astro} hasnt been taken by anyt= hing yet.


=C2=A0
starfish, star-nosed mole, stellated polyhedron. What do you think? What wo= uld
be a good word for it?

Something= that would =C2=A0have mnemonic power but wouldn't be a false friend. E= .g. in Esperanto they usually change a vowel or a consonant so that two mea= nings get separated.

Pierre
--
Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.

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