Received: from mail-qk0-f191.google.com ([209.85.220.191]:34087) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YiOb5-0003dx-M6 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:47:29 -0700 Received: by qkbw1 with SMTP id w1sf67757588qkb.1 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=uYiLz5w1hR3/jHfIPUd1qZbVY3hzBU3W1bhIdfajatk=; b=o4b2TmLsUm9vMblOiVrWSJ8yPQVRiifEbNLOQ6ocFnwweDuytb5CE4R7RClPRRQLN+ dipoE84fKWIlRLgtsKGlrfpbKX3S0Wtb8o1Kt/Ck4833lB5CEzKeriA4X1oV+bKf/AdT 1jUfNQKSkAv2DASvHhhQg/iZAN5VIfI723GX8N1ueoeFT723a0jqXNWz3j9OwuNKysy5 bJB7eX4MCLvDmY0mTODaUzb6KHIlqdb3730jxoMQ9HizMX2GFxxY5RuihYv2NpLceYsp uR7qcFl87BZWrMbWq+BVo1W3j+bVsAyKph1bxvvfT7LwFFkkShv4g04e6+62o50uapX7 ez1A== X-Received: by 10.140.30.118 with SMTP id c109mr348869qgc.15.1429109237609; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.98.162 with SMTP id o31ls678207qge.81.gmail; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.221.131 with SMTP id r3mr24604568yhp.8.1429109237277; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x12si1518130igx.1.2015.04.15.07.47.17 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235; Received: by mail-oi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id o83so24974774oik.1 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:47:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.246.163 with SMTP id xx3mr21291745obc.83.1429109216469; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:46:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.232.211 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 07:46:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4144143.LNURNV54kV@caracal> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:46:25 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] star (shape) To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1ee4631697b0513c46b27 X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c1ee4631697b0513c46b27 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Then I must have weird eyes, because I don't see them that way. And photographs do show points on stars, especially very bright ones. stevo On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > 2015-04-15 17:27 GMT+03:00 MorphemeAddict : > >> Gleki, you said "Anyway, I can't see any language that would distinguish >> them probably because human eye sees every star in the sky except the Sun >> with protrusions i.e. as a "star polygon"." >> >> I disagree. I would say that people see NO star (or planet) as having >> protrusions. They're just bright points. Camera/photographic artifacts do >> add points sometimes. >> > > No, human eye does see them with protrusions. Camera obviously doesn't. > Human eye sees them that way. That's how it is constructed. > > >> >> stevo >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:28 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < >> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2015-04-15 7:39 GMT+03:00 Pierre Abbat : >>> >>>> The word "star" is polysemous: >>>> 1. a heavenly body that emits light; >>>> 2. a non-convex shape that has a point from which all the inside can be >>>> seen; >>>> 3. a chief or excellent performer. >>>> Sense 1 is {tarci}. Sense 3 could be expressed by a lujvo, which I >>>> won't worry >>>> about right now. Sense 2, I think, deserves a gismu, but doesn't have >>>> one. >>>> >>>> I think that sense 2 deserves a gismu because it appears in several >>>> compounds: >>>> >>> >>> Definition: x1 is a star non-convex polygon with x2 (number) regular >>> pointy protrusions and x2 indentations. >>> >>> Or should we use a separate brivla for x2 to parallel other geometrical >>> mostly one-place brivla (ignoring "material" places)? >>> Or put it another way should geometry brivla parallel each other in >>> their place structure? >>> A separate question how do we define star being a regular one? Using >>> {kubli}, right? >>> >>> Anyway, I can't see any language that would distinguish them probably >>> because human eye sees every star in the sky except the Sun with >>> protrusions i.e. as a "star polygon". >>> >>> {stela} and {estrela} come to mind but they are taken by semantics of >>> {tarci} so it's be impolite to steal them. {stelatai} maybe. >>> >>> Asterisk would be probably {astrisko}. >>> >>> Also I can't find a word for "celestial body" in general like >>> "planet/star/dwarf planet/comet", {se kensa} is probably enough but {astro} >>> hasnt been taken by anything yet. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> starfish, star-nosed mole, stellated polyhedron. What do you think? >>>> What would >>>> be a good word for it? >>>> >>> >>> Something that would have mnemonic power but wouldn't be a false >>> friend. E.g. in Esperanto they usually change a vowel or a consonant so >>> that two meanings get separated. >>> >>>> >>>> Pierre >>>> -- >>>> Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "lojban" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c1ee4631697b0513c46b27 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Then I must have weird eyes, because I don't see them th= at way.=C2=A0
And photographs do show points on stars, especially very b= right ones.=C2=A0

stevo
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 10:30 AM, Gleki Arxoku= na <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-04-15 17:27 GMT+03:00 Morph= emeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:
Gleki, you said "Anyway, I can't see any language that would = distinguish them probably because human eye sees every star in the sky exce= pt the Sun with protrusions i.e. as a "star polygon"."

I disagree= . I would say that people see NO star (or planet) as having protrusions. Th= ey're just bright points. Camera/photographic artifacts do add points s= ometimes.=C2=A0

N= o, human eye does see them with protrusions. Camera obviously doesn't.<= /div>
Human eye sees them that way. That's how it is constructed.
=C2=A0
=
=
= stevo

On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 2:28 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2015-04-15 7:39 GMT+03:00 Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.= org>:
The word "star" is polyse= mous:
1. a heavenly body that emits light;
2. a non-convex shape that has a point from which all the inside can be see= n;
3. a chief or excellent performer.
Sense 1 is {tarci}. Sense 3 could be expressed by a lujvo, which I won'= t worry
about right now. Sense 2, I think, deserves a gismu, but doesn't have o= ne.

I think that sense 2 deserves a gismu because it appears in several compoun= ds:

Definition: x1 is a star non-conve= x polygon with x2 (number) regular pointy protrusions and x2 indentations.<= br>
Or should we use a separate brivla for x2 to parallel other geometri= cal mostly one-place brivla (ignoring "material" places)?
Or p= ut it another way should geometry brivla parallel each other in their place= structure?
A separate question how do we define star being a regular on= e? Using {kubli}, right?

Anyway, I can't see any language that w= ould distinguish them probably because human eye sees every star in the sky= except the Sun with protrusions i.e. as a "star polygon".
{stela} and {estrela} come to mind but they are taken by semantics of {tar= ci} so it's be impolite to steal them. {stelatai} maybe.

Asteris= k would be probably {astrisko}.

Also I can't find a word for &qu= ot;celestial body" in general like "planet/star/dwarf planet/come= t", {se kensa} is probably enough but {astro} hasnt been taken by anyt= hing yet.


=C2=A0
starfish, star-nosed mole, stellated polyhedron. What do you think? What wo= uld
be a good word for it?

Something= that would =C2=A0have mnemonic power but wouldn't be a false friend. E= .g. in Esperanto they usually change a vowel or a consonant so that two mea= nings get separated.

Pierre
--
Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.

--
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