Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 01:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Cc: phma@bezitopo.org
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 <16710f0d-7eeb-4bdb-aebd-cc26cc726ec4@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: star (shape)
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Le samedi 18 avril 2015 11:12:42 UTC+9, Andrew Browne a =C3=A9crit :
>
> I agree that a star (heavenly body) and a star (shape) are distinct=20
> concepts and should have separate words.
>
> But in the context of shapes "star" still has multiple meanings:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star-shaped_polygon
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_polygon
>
> What gismu or lujvo would represent these two concepts?
> Is the second one the first one +dikni ?
>
>>
>>
=20
What la piier wants should include star polygons, and should be narrower=20
term than star-shaped polygons, because his purpose is creating lujvo for=
=20
"starfish, star-nosed mole, stellated polyhedron". You might missed my=20
previous post in which I suggested creating gismu for stellated form:

Le mercredi 15 avril 2015 18:05:34 UTC+9, guskant a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
> I understand that gismu form should be created from words of natural=20
> languages, but, in this case, I prefer creating it from lojban words for =
a=20
> geometrical definition of stellation:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellation#Kepler.27s_definition
>
> Maybe from :=20
> terkubli tcena tarmi
>
> for example, {kutmi}, {kutca} or something.
>
>

pe'ibu'o {kutca} should be rejected, because the 4-letter-rafsi would be=20
similar to that of {gutci}.

The precise definition of {kutmi} would be:

x1 tarmi gi'e jalge lo nu lo terkubli be x2 bei x3 cu tcena ji'e lo nu tyky=
=20
simxu lo ka kruca kei kei kei gi'e to'e cimni

Note 1:=20
Temporal lojban definition of {kubli} by la xorxes on jbovlaste refers to=
=20
only hexahedron, so if we adopt it as official, we will need another word=
=20
for polytopes.
Note 2:=20
{to'e cimni} in the definition is for excluding hemipolyhedra. If you don't=
=20
mind including it, we may delete that part of the definition.


With {kutmi}, we will be able to create what la piier wants. For example,

starfish: kutmyfi'e: x1 finpe x2 gi'e se tarmi lo kutmi

star-nosed mole: kutmynazdermabru: x1 mabru x2 gi'e xabju lo dertu .ije lo=
=20
nazbi be x1 cu se tarmi lo kutmi=20

stellated polyhedron: cibykutmi: x1 kutmi li ci x2


mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le samedi 18 avril 2015 11:12:42 UTC+9, Andrew Bro=
wne a =C3=A9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0=
;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div di=
r=3D"ltr">I agree that a star (heavenly body) and a star (shape) are distin=
ct concepts and should have separate words.<div><br></div><div>But in the c=
ontext of shapes "star" still has multiple meanings:</div><div><a href=3D"h=
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star-shaped_polygon" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%=
3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStar-shaped_polygon\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\=
46usg\75AFQjCNGBqcI08FCl4ZaPeK40KMwOESVk5A';return true;" onclick=3D"this.h=
ref=3D'https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki=
%2FStar-shaped_polygon\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGBqcI08FCl4ZaPeK4=
0KMwOESVk5A';return true;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Star-shaped_p=
olygon</a></div><div><a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_polygon"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'https://www=
.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStar_polygon\46=
sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNG59NjqFkz_WNskJEtkfVTYi3vyYQ';return true;=
" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'https://www.google.com/url?q\75https%3A%2F%2Fen.w=
ikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStar_polygon\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNG59Nj=
qFkz_WNskJEtkfVTYi3vyYQ';return true;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>S=
tar_polygon</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>What gismu or lujvo would repr=
esent these two concepts?</div><div>Is the second one the first one +dikni =
?</div><div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left=
:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br></blockquote></div>=
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><div>What la piier =
wants should include star polygons, and should be narrower term than star-s=
haped polygons, because his purpose is creating lujvo for "starfish, star-n=
osed mole, stellated polyhedron". You might missed my previous post in whic=
h I suggested creating gismu for stellated form:</div><div><br></div><div>L=
e mercredi 15 avril 2015 18:05:34 UTC+9, guskant a =C3=A9crit&nbsp;:<blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-=
width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid=
; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>I understand tha=
t gismu form should be created from words of natural languages, but, in thi=
s case, I prefer creating it from lojban words for a geometrical definition=
 of stellation:</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.or=
g/wiki/Stellation#Kepler.27s_definition" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow"=
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/<wbr>Stellation#Kepler.27s_<wbr>definition</=
a></div><div><br></div><div>Maybe from :&nbsp;</div><div>terkubli tcena tar=
mi</div><div><br></div><div>for example, {kutmi}, {kutca} or something.</di=
v><div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><di=
v>pe'ibu'o {kutca} should be rejected, because the 4-letter-rafsi would be =
similar to that of {gutci}.</div><div><br></div><div>The precise definition=
 of {kutmi} would be:</div><div><br></div><div>x1 tarmi gi'e jalge lo nu lo=
 terkubli be x2 bei x3 cu tcena ji'e lo nu tyky simxu lo ka kruca kei kei k=
ei gi'e to'e cimni</div><div><br></div><div>Note 1:&nbsp;</div><div>Tempora=
l lojban definition of {kubli} by la xorxes on jbovlaste refers to only hex=
ahedron, so if we adopt it as official, we will need another word for polyt=
opes.</div><div>Note 2:&nbsp;</div><div>{to'e cimni} in the definition is f=
or excluding hemipolyhedra. If you don't mind including it, we may delete t=
hat part of the definition.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>With {k=
utmi}, we will be able to create what la piier wants. For example,</div><di=
v><br></div><div>starfish:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span>kutmyfi'e:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-spa=
ce:pre">	</span>x1 finpe x2 gi'e se tarmi lo kutmi</div><div><br></div><div=
>star-nosed mole:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>kutmynazdermabru:<span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space=
:pre">	</span>x1 mabru x2 gi'e xabju lo dertu .ije lo nazbi be x1 cu se tar=
mi lo kutmi&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>stellated polyhedron:<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>cibykutmi:<span class=
=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>x1 kutmi li ci x2</di=
v></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>mu'o</div></div>

<p></p>

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