Received: from mail-ie0-f188.google.com ([209.85.223.188]:33886) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YjQxl-0007ra-VT for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:31:10 -0700 Received: by iebtr6 with SMTP id tr6sf24261087ieb.1 for ; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:30:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=tuDsNyjZxY2rX+mcCmHry8Opgy1xCFMWakxXdoKYzlY=; b=ihEN3O8b3GKHqt/n/G4kUhw9Rbehf2MIcH1u8fT/oXoGeePG1J3C9X2z290+S6srp1 zsjpOru4RAucbUzmGYzQE/Hk7v8bnD6OHcq0kXH+e/CwJapaTLcHd1GD6bJKlX4wbUTD tTI1lsOGa4UNsoCbJIC2ZNrJd5WOQARlMLLUMVi+rixl8NsFRRs2vUHGrRK5tuZiHDzN sw7x7dllopFNm3wwvNNlpCsilxPzYUAq/xe/oT0lTSec7wz9qvYktWVRVuYvQK6f3Sbo Lq2/jU+qDNm+gmbc4qJpZOd4ILbyIvv07Dk1xMp4lfBpTxQOdOTAwt7h9nKPgXjHBh5L pfMg== X-Received: by 10.140.100.136 with SMTP id s8mr95339qge.2.1429356659083; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:30:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.94.68 with SMTP id f62ls2166060qge.20.gmail; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:30:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.83.165 with SMTP id j34mr96524qgd.23.1429356658693; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:30:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 04:30:58 -0700 (PDT) From: iesk To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <45b415a8-70f4-4ae7-8694-c56b3adc0a99@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20131107161042.1fc3f7f4@aol.com> References: <51A379EF.3020803@gmx.de> <20131107161042.1fc3f7f4@aol.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] A solution to a problem which does not exist (was: cmevla as a class of brivla) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_1454_1123138120.1429356658292" X-Original-Sender: pa.fae@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_1454_1123138120.1429356658292 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1455_201125710.1429356658292" ------=_Part_1455_201125710.1429356658292 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le jeudi 7 novembre 2013 16:10:42 UTC+1, Wuzzy a =C3=A9crit : > > On Thu, 7 Nov 2013 00:12:53 -0800 (PST)=20 > iesk > wrote:=20 > > > Supposing the Merge:=20 > > .i ko'a goi la .betsemes. cu selme'e zo .betsemes.=20 > > .i ko'e goi la tsani cu selme'e zo .tsani.=20 > > .i ko'a .betsemes.=20 > > .i ko'e tsani .y. na ku=20 > > You are trying to solve a problem which does not exist. Of course your=20 > construction is ungrammatical, so it does not mean anything. I=20 > think you are proposing to change the grammar.=20 > > If I understood correctly, what you are trying to accomplish is to turn= =20 > a cmevla into a brivla.=20 > Well, no. I was merely commenting on the proposal. One argument in favour= =20 of the proposal seems to be that it supposedly simplifies usage (less=20 'exceptions'). I'm not so certain. I'm not trying to solve any problem at all, and I don't want to accomplish= =20 anything. I'm not in favour of any grammar change. > Meet =E2=80=9Cme=E2=80=9D. It turns the following sumti into a selbri. Th= is is a more=20 > general way to do it, but it still works.=20 > > Please read the part about =E2=80=9Cme=E2=80=9D in the CLL.=20 > =20 > > It allows for constructions like this:=20 > > jbo: =E2=80=9C.i ko'a me la .uuZIT.=E2=80=9D=20 > eng: =E2=80=9CHe/she/it is Wuzzy.=E2=80=9D=20 > > jbo: =E2=80=9C.i ko'e me la tsani=E2=80=9D=20 > eng: =E2=80=9CHe/she/it is Sky.=E2=80=9D=20 > > That=E2=80=99s short, simple, nice, and already part of the language.=20 > > Compare for:=20 > jbo: =E2=80=9C.i ko'i tsani=E2=80=9D=20 > eng: =E2=80=9CHe/she/it is an expanse of sky at some place.=E2=80=9D=20 > > =E2=80=9Cme=E2=80=9D also allows for more complex constructions, see the = reference=20 > grammar.=20 > I am aware, and a happy user, of {me}. =20 > > > Another solution (in a fictional lojbophone world, at least) would be= =20 > > not to use me'evla at all.=20 > This is not a solution because there is no problem. So it would strip=20 > Lojban of a very good feature for absolutely no benefit. :O=20 > I'm not convinced that cmevla are really that useful. I don't like using=20 them. =20 > > In case I understood you totally wrong, please correct me. Honestly, I=20 > can only guess from your posting what you actually wanted to=20 > express. ;-) Your posting was rather vague.=20 > You kind of did, but my very vague posting justified you in doing so. =20 > > --=20 > Wuzzy=20 > XMPP: Wuz...@jabber.ccc.de =20 > E-Mail: wuz...@mail.ru =20 > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_1455_201125710.1429356658292 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Le jeudi 7 novembre 2013 16:10:42 UTC+1, Wuzzy a = =C3=A9crit :
On Thu, 7 Nov= 2013 00:12:53 -0800 (PST)
iesk <pa....@g= mx.de> wrote:

> Supposing the Merge:
> .i ko'a goi la .betsemes. cu selme'e zo .betsemes.
> .i ko'e goi la tsani cu selme'e zo .tsani.
> .i ko'a .betsemes.
> .i ko'e tsani .y. na ku

You are trying to solve a problem which does not exist. Of course your
construction is ungrammatical, so it does not mean anything. I
think you are proposing to change the grammar.

If I understood correctly, what you are trying to accomplish is to turn
a cmevla into a brivla.

Well, no. I was merely commenting on the proposal= . One argument in favour of the proposal seems to be that it supposedly sim= plifies usage (less 'exceptions'). I'm not so certain.

I'm not tryin= g to solve any problem at all, and I don't want to accomplish anything. I'm= not in favour of any grammar change.


Meet =E2=80=9Cme=E2=80=9D. It turns the following sumti into a selbri. = This is a more
general way to do it, but it still works.

Please read the part about =E2=80=9Cme=E2=80=9D in the CLL.
<http= ://dag.github.io/cll/5/10/>

It allows for constructions like this:

jbo: =E2=80=9C.i ko'a me la .uuZIT.=E2=80=9D
eng: =E2=80=9CHe/she/it is Wuzzy.=E2=80=9D

jbo: =E2=80=9C.i ko'e me la tsani=E2=80=9D
eng: =E2=80=9CHe/she/it is Sky.=E2=80=9D

That=E2=80=99s short, simple, nice, and already part of the language.

Compare for:
jbo: =E2=80=9C.i ko'i tsani=E2=80=9D
eng: =E2=80=9CHe/she/it is an expanse of sky at some place.=E2=80=9D

=E2=80=9Cme=E2=80=9D also allows for more complex constructions, see th= e reference
grammar.

I am aware, and a happy user, of {me}.
 <= /div>

> Another solution (in a fictional lojbophone world, at least) would= be
> not to use me'evla at all.
This is not a solution because there is no problem. So it would strip
Lojban of a very good feature for absolutely no benefit. :O

I'm not convinced that cmevla are really that use= ful. I don't like using them.
 

In case I understood you totally wrong, please correct me. Honestly, I
can only guess from your posting what you actually wanted to
express. ;-) Your posting was rather vague.

You kind of did, but my very vague posting justif= ied you in doing so.
 

--=20
Wuzzy
XMPP: Wuz...@ja= bber.ccc.de
E-Mail: wuz...@ma= il.ru

--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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