Date: Fri, 8 May 2015 04:49:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Spheniscine <spheniscine@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: [lojban] Re: It's been a long time.
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Yeah, my apologies on the "deprecation" thing; I had misinterpreted its 
being left off a beginner's dictionary for its deletion. :p 

And yeah that {mi'ai} thing makes sense. One of my natural languages I 
learned was Malay, which did distinguish between <kami> (equivalent to 
{mi'a}) and <kita> (equivalent to {mi'o} or {ma'a}), so keeping those 
straight wasn't a huge problem for me, but I understand the rationale.

On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 5:33:54 PM UTC+8, Spheniscine wrote:
>
> coi za'u re'u loi jbotadni
>
> Wow, the memories are flooding back. I was part of that old mailing list 
> waaay back when. Checking my email archive it was... 2008? Heh. In that 
> time I had discovered much about myself I didn't know about before, found 
> some new hobbies.
>
> Well, a conversation about philology and linguistics, both natural and 
> constructed, had suddenly reminded me of Lojban; I thought I'd take a peek 
> a what happened when I was gone... and... wow. You guys have really gone up 
> and remodeled the place. "Dot side", the "xorlo" reform, new *cmavo* like 
> *mi'ai*, *la'oi*, etc. (I might still need some of these explained to 
> me), rewriting the language primer... not to mention ongoing talk about 
> reducing logical connectives to a single set, and even possible abolishment 
> of the short *rafsi* system... I was even surprised at little things like 
> the deprecation of *tirxu* in favor of *tigra*. After I got over the 
> initial shock though, I found myself agreeing with pretty much all these 
> changes.
>
> I was never very fluent at Lojban, and I'm not sure how much time I have 
> to dedicate to that goal now. But even through all these changes, which I 
> quite appreciate for "cleaning up" a lot of clutter, including stuff I 
> didn't realize *was* clutter, I still see the elements that attracted me 
> in the first place; the idea of a language with both syntactic and semantic 
> rigor as core ideals, that challenged assumptions about what language could 
> be like. 
>
> (Yes, I'm aware that this rigor takes different forms on both cases. The 
> syntactic rigor of Lojban eliminates syntactic ambiguity if used correctly, 
> but eliminating semantic ambiguity is impossible without specifying and 
> tense-marking everything to oblivion. However, semantic *rigor*, though 
> not perfect [see the ongoing discussion about *tarci* "star (celestial 
> object)" versus "star (shape)"], means that each word represents one 
> specific Platonic idea/relation, in contrast to English (and other natural 
> languages), where words typically have {Platonic idea/relation + 
> connotational baggage + figurative senses + other Platonic ideas/relations 
> that may have had some tangential relationship with the original idea and 
> figurative senses long ago + unrelated ideas from a completely different 
> word that merged into this word}... as an amateur philologist this can be 
> quite beautiful in its own right. But I also very much liked the idea of a 
> language where one could "say what they mean and mean what they say".)
>
> Anyway, glad to be reacquainted.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Yeah, my apologies on the "deprecation" thing; I had misin=
terpreted its being left off a beginner's dictionary for its deletion. :p&n=
bsp;<div><br></div><div>And yeah that {mi'ai} thing makes sense. One of my =
natural languages I learned was Malay, which did distinguish between &lt;ka=
mi&gt; (equivalent to {mi'a}) and &lt;kita&gt; (equivalent to {mi'o} or {ma=
'a}), so keeping those straight wasn't a huge problem for me, but I underst=
and the rationale.<div><br>On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 5:33:54 PM UTC+8, Sphe=
niscine wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-l=
eft: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>coi za'u re'u loi jbotadni<div><br></div><div>Wow, the memories are floodi=
ng back. I was part of that old mailing list waaay back when. Checking my e=
mail archive it was... 2008? Heh. In that time I had discovered much about =
myself I didn't know about before, found some new hobbies.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Well, a conversation about philology and linguistics, both natural=
 and constructed, had suddenly reminded me of Lojban; I thought I'd take a =
peek a what happened when I was gone... and... wow. You guys have really go=
ne up and remodeled the place. "Dot side", the "xorlo" reform, new <i>cmavo=
</i>&nbsp;like <i>mi'ai</i>, <i>la'oi</i>, etc. (I might still need some of=
 these explained to me), rewriting the language primer... not to mention on=
going talk about reducing logical connectives to a single set, and even pos=
sible abolishment of the short <i>rafsi</i> system... I was even surprised =
at little things like the deprecation of <i>tirxu</i>&nbsp;in favor of <i>t=
igra</i>. After I got over the initial shock though, I found myself agreein=
g with pretty much all these changes.</div><div><br></div><div>I was never =
very fluent at Lojban, and I'm not sure how much time I have to dedicate to=
 that goal now. But even through all these changes, which I quite appreciat=
e for "cleaning up" a lot of clutter, including stuff I didn't realize <i>w=
as</i> clutter, I still see the elements that attracted me in the first pla=
ce; the idea of a language with both syntactic and semantic rigor as core i=
deals, that challenged assumptions about what language could be like.&nbsp;=
</div><div><br></div><div>(Yes, I'm aware that this rigor takes different f=
orms on both cases. The syntactic rigor of Lojban eliminates syntactic ambi=
guity if used correctly, but eliminating semantic ambiguity is impossible w=
ithout specifying and tense-marking everything to oblivion. However, semant=
ic <i>rigor</i>, though not perfect [see the ongoing discussion about <i>ta=
rci</i>&nbsp;"star (celestial object)" versus "star (shape)"], means that e=
ach word represents one specific Platonic idea/relation, in contrast to Eng=
lish (and other natural languages), where words typically have {Platonic id=
ea/relation + connotational baggage + figurative senses + other Platonic id=
eas/relations that may have had some tangential relationship with the origi=
nal idea and figurative senses long ago + unrelated ideas from a completely=
 different word that merged into this word}... as an amateur philologist th=
is can be quite beautiful in its own right. But I also very much liked the =
idea of a language where one could "say what they mean and mean what they s=
ay".)</div><div><br></div><div>Anyway, glad to be reacquainted.</div></div>=
</blockquote></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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