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Date: Sat, 9 May 2015 00:31:45 +0800
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: It's been a long time.
From: Jonathan Soo <spheniscine@gmail.com>
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"I'm not a Christian, but is that even a *possible* interpretation?"

No it isn't... though Christians believe in the Father, Son, Spirit, the
prayer is clearly addressed to the Father, and they certainly won't address
God as somehow being his own Father.

source: Yeah I'm one

On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> 2015-05-08 17:31 GMT+03:00 v4hn <me@v4hn.de>:
>
>> On Fri, May 08, 2015 at 04:53:42PM +0300, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
>> > 2015-05-08 15:53 GMT+03:00 Spheniscine <spheniscine@gmail.com>:
>> > > Actually Pater Noster is clearly {mi'a}, since the "our" clearly
>> doesn't
>> > > include the addressee (God/the Father).
>> >
>> > Who knows, maybe Father is the father of himself.
>>
>> I'm not a Christian, but is that even a *possible* interpretation?
>> It sounds ridiculous to me.
>>
>
> Sorry, I'm not an expert. Some say other religions are ridiculous.
> Translation can be very important. You wouldn't complaint that 3=1, would
> you? Is that more ridiculous?
>
>>
>> > Also {ma'a} is possible like e.g. Father not only of Christians but even
>> > those who don't believe in Him.
>> > [...]
>> > {mi'a} would mean here something completely different and for some it
>> may
>> > sound egoistic.
>>
>> Sorry, you lost me. Why wouldn't {mi'a} include others?
>> The addressee is clearly the Father, not heathens.
>> Both {mi'a} and {ma'a} include "& others unspecified" in their definition.
>>
>
>
> Oops, indeed, my mistake. It should be {mi} (which is also "we") vs.
> {mi'a}.
>
>
>>
>>
>> v4hn
>>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">&quot;<span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.80000=
01907349px">I&#39;m not a Christian, but is that even a *possible* interpre=
tation?</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.8000001907349p=
x">&quot;<br><br>No it isn&#39;t... though Christians believe in the Father=
, Son, Spirit, the prayer is clearly addressed to the Father, and they cert=
ainly won&#39;t address God as somehow being his own Father.</span><div><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></d=
iv><div><span style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80);font-size:12.8000001907349px">sou=
rce: Yeah I&#39;m one</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">2015-05-08 17:31 GMT+03:00 v4hn <span d=
ir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:me@v4hn.de" target=3D"_blank">me@v4hn.de</=
a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .=
8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span>On Fri, May 08, 2015=
 at 04:53:42PM +0300, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:<br>
&gt; 2015-05-08 15:53 GMT+03:00 Spheniscine &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sphenisci=
ne@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">spheniscine@gmail.com</a>&gt;:<br>
&gt; &gt; Actually Pater Noster is clearly {mi&#39;a}, since the &quot;our&=
quot; clearly doesn&#39;t<br>
&gt; &gt; include the addressee (God/the Father).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Who knows, maybe Father is the father of himself.<br>
<br>
</span>I&#39;m not a Christian, but is that even a *possible* interpretatio=
n?<br>
It sounds ridiculous to me.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>Sorr=
y, I&#39;m not an expert. Some say other religions are ridiculous. Translat=
ion can be very important. You wouldn&#39;t complaint that 3=3D1, would you=
? Is that more ridiculous?</div><span class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
<span><br>
&gt; Also {ma&#39;a} is possible like e.g. Father not only of Christians bu=
t even<br>
&gt; those who don&#39;t believe in Him.<br>
</span>&gt; [...]<br>
<span>&gt; {mi&#39;a} would mean here something completely different and fo=
r some it may<br>
&gt; sound egoistic.<br>
<br>
</span>Sorry, you lost me. Why wouldn&#39;t {mi&#39;a} include others?<br>
The addressee is clearly the Father, not heathens.<br>
Both {mi&#39;a} and {ma&#39;a} include &quot;&amp; others unspecified&quot;=
 in their definition.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div></span>=
<div>Oops, indeed, my mistake. It should be {mi} (which is also &quot;we&qu=
ot;) vs. {mi&#39;a}.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">
<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
v4hn<br>
</font></span><div><div><br>
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</span></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"=
><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

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