Received: from mail-la0-f64.google.com ([209.85.215.64]:33228) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1YrNyg-0004Cc-JN for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 10 May 2015 02:56:59 -0700 Received: by labgd6 with SMTP id gd6sf38631444lab.0 for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 02:56:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=N6/LCEVuJIO+CYRk8FWwmAWj4YoXLpXbBDRBH7PBiiw=; b=v6wIYwmLRQBajSSLO6ZPywWf96IVP2xY4ibPvseFOxDeziBVpdHVVGHPP1c1hI4jx7 gbhWxR2us7zZP0fOg+2aHuqBjsnssg4hQGko1ncdDHVAOKIyPNqRaPvUO71z5hRhzNbS VOnH31pzYYtt1/x87vSeP8oJ3o5ym8hWJGjIrPFxFmAA43vA7bKApyistBAKpQ4ZqgL7 qozPv15w1/PlHDa9JdHfpBmd+HhIHPXC9gxJZUmE07wWl7UxZ3l4uGBhjrjNrkBaPfvp j69lPSSnI25dcXMKfy4iiwNHCM6hfzIKtl/Zi+XQMQ8v/bZH7CVqfkNJe9TzjruygWTC jkMA== X-Received: by 10.180.101.130 with SMTP id fg2mr56852wib.3.1431251807239; Sun, 10 May 2015 02:56:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.100.227 with SMTP id fb3ls503516wib.23.canary; Sun, 10 May 2015 02:56:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.98.130 with SMTP id ei2mr4385077wib.0.1431251806856; Sun, 10 May 2015 02:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net. [212.227.17.20]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p12si234792wiv.1.2015.05.10.02.56.46 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 10 May 2015 02:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.20 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.17.20; Received: from [192.168.2.118] ([93.220.70.207]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx102) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0M3MAG-1Z9BuP2jwG-00r0Nj for ; Sun, 10 May 2015 11:56:46 +0200 Message-ID: <554F2B5F.5040906@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 11:56:47 +0200 From: selpa'i User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] New metalinguistic term since the cmevla-brivla merge? References: <2c247ae2-1e2b-446f-906e-d48a75271b77@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:O22ISOBInrN8Sff777uPNU74XWqq0ak2+4y4/k7lriOchFgsGtQ xwpUrF4GD8nP2P0Lsx/RvTCmcZIc2Fzh0pHQBQ4pZMQZ3IGNNJpg+T0aWu+c//sT72ZG9rO EoLwqBy9IHqw3bisbZ43e8rcATNKsJCVy9HZa5PYKmzGHoCaI9+mbNk88Jhhg/G5wW6w3Zz LjASJRz14+s3OUUJDFhqg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1; X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.17.20 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_bar: - la zipcpi cu cusku di'e > I'm not too familiar about the discussed pros and cons of the merge, but > I think the simplification of the vocabulary expansion process (another > on the pro side is the abilities of la-names to mix cmevla with za'e > mulvla) is worth a few more mandatory s, whose elision tends to > confuse beginners anyway. It does, indeed. I see this all the time; they are first introduced to "names" via cmevla (if they use L4B or maybe CLL), and they learn {la djan. klama}. Once we tell them they can also use {la} on brivla (huge shock for many!), they always forget the {cu} or {ku} because they are used to the cmevla case where you need neither. It makes {la} have "two grammars", which is annoying. mi'e la selpa'i mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.