Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 07:16:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Spheniscine <spheniscine@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Proposal for new cmavo: {vau'u}
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({ju'o ru'e} I am a programmer but am not familiar with the gritty details 
of Lojban grammar parsing)

Perhaps we could make {vau'u} the famyma'o of the unit of a sentence 
(though in attempting to make sense of the parser output, my second 
bridi-less sentence doesn't seem to produce a structure called "sentence"; 
is there no structure that describes the construct between two {.i}, or 
between the start of the text / NIhO and the first {.i}?). Or if it's too 
difficult to come up with a solution now, we could treat VAUhU like I as a 
temporary "hack" solution.

On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 9:12:14 PM UTC+8, Latro wrote:
>
> That's actually pretty hard to my understanding. When you have an {.i}, 
> basically everything left outstanding has to be over because now a 
> "sentence" construct is over. There is no corresponding construct for this 
> situation. So while it would be easy in principle to just backtrack and 
> count, this isn't actually how the grammar works. Indeed, if this were how 
> the grammar works it would be a lot harder to be sure that it is correct.
>
> mi'e la latro'a mu'o
>
> On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Spheniscine <sphen...@gmail.com 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> Actually, instead of pretending to be a string of {vau}, perhaps it'd be 
>> better just for it to auto-close with all famyma'o that a simple {.i} would 
>> (but without actually starting a new sentence). This way it can even close 
>> off sentences that do not actually have bridi (and thus no possible {vau}); 
>> for example {coi lo tavla pe la .lojban. vau'u ui}. Will probably be easier 
>> to code too.
>>
>> On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 4:04:48 PM UTC+8, Spheniscine wrote:
>>>
>>> I think it might be useful to have a new cmavo, {vau'u}, which is in its 
>>> own selma'o. It would act as a "super famyma'o / super vau"; acting as any 
>>> number of {vau}s needed to close off a sentence.
>>>
>>> Why? Attitudinals, mostly; it'd allow adding attitudinals as an 
>>> afterthought, attaching it to the entire sentence rather than the last 
>>> thing in it. {vau} is sufficient for simple sentences (e.g. {do sidju mi 
>>> vau ui}), but more complex sentences with subclauses at the end may require 
>>> several {vau}, which just feels wrong. For example
>>>
>>> Instead of: {do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu vau vau vau ui} 
>>> You can have: {do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu vau'u ui}
>>>
>>  -- 
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>>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">({ju'o ru'e} I am a programmer but am not familiar with th=
e gritty details of Lojban grammar parsing)<div><br></div><div>Perhaps we c=
ould make {vau'u} the famyma'o of the unit of a sentence (though in attempt=
ing to make sense of the parser output, my second bridi-less sentence doesn=
't seem to produce a structure called "sentence"; is there no structure tha=
t describes the construct between two {.i}, or between the start of the tex=
t / NIhO and the first {.i}?). Or if it's too difficult to come up with a s=
olution now, we could treat VAUhU like I as a temporary "hack" solution.<br=
><div><br>On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 9:12:14 PM UTC+8, Latro wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left=
: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>That's actually =
pretty hard to my understanding. When you have an {.i}, basically everythin=
g left outstanding has to be over because now a "sentence" construct is ove=
r. There is no corresponding construct for this situation. So while it woul=
d be easy in principle to just backtrack and count, this isn't actually how=
 the grammar works. Indeed, if this were how the grammar works it would be =
a lot harder to be sure that it is correct.<br><br></div>mi'e la latro'a mu=
'o<br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 9:0=
0 AM, Spheniscine <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"javascript:" target=3D"_=
blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"B516FS8PRpAJ" rel=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=
=3D"this.href=3D'javascript:';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'javascr=
ipt:';return true;">sphen...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Actually, instead of pretending to be =
a string of {vau}, perhaps it'd be better just for it to auto-close with al=
l famyma'o that a simple {.i} would (but without actually starting a new se=
ntence). This way it can even close off sentences that do not actually have=
 bridi (and thus no possible {vau}); for example {coi lo tavla pe la .lojba=
n. vau'u ui}. Will probably be easier to code too.<div><div><div><br>On Sun=
day, May 10, 2015 at 4:04:48 PM UTC+8, Spheniscine wrote:<blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc s=
olid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I think it might be useful to have =
a new cmavo, {vau'u}, which is in its own selma'o. It would act as a "super=
 famyma'o / super vau"; acting as any number of {vau}s needed to close off =
a sentence.<div><br></div><div>Why? Attitudinals, mostly; it'd allow adding=
 attitudinals as an afterthought, attaching it to the entire sentence rathe=
r than the last thing in it. {vau} is sufficient for simple sentences (e.g.=
 {do sidju mi vau ui}), but more complex sentences with subclauses at the e=
nd may require several {vau}, which just feels wrong. For example</div><div=
><br></div><div>Instead of: {do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ricfu vau vau=
 vau ui}&nbsp;</div><div>You can have: {do sidju mi lo nu mi zenba lo ni ri=
cfu vau'u ui}<br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div><div=
>

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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