Date: Tue, 12 May 2015 07:02:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Spheniscine (la zipcpi)" <spheniscine@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <496eac79-991b-43a9-bc80-d3dac65cd246@googlegroups.com>
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References: <04cecf13-9f41-4589-9e37-e3987ef53330@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Possible polysemy clashes for "regular affixes" in lujvo?
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One solution I thought of might be to ditch the school of thought that all 
lujvo that have the same ve lujvo are equivalent and completely 
interchangeable
Thus {zangasnu} could be {zabna fa lo nu X1 gasnu X2},
While {zabnygau} could be {X1 gasnu lo nu X2 zabna X3 X4}

{ta'ocu'i pe'i} that Lojban as-is relies way too much on the short rafsi 
anyway, which may inhibit learning it naturally. For example, {snura} "to 
be safe/secure", often gets combined with {gasnu} to make {nurgau} "to 
secure/protect". But that relies on the student remembering the rafsi of a 
not-quite-so-promiscuous gismu. It would probably be much easier to see the 
connection if the "standard form" remains {snurygau}.

But there are probably some downsides too...

On Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 9:42:45 PM UTC+8, Spheniscine (la zipcpi) wrote:
>
> Certain gismu have, over time, become treated like "prefixes" and 
> "suffixes"; they are used for many lujvo, and they make them in a highly 
> predictable manner.
>
> For example: {zabna binxo -> zanbi'o "to (improve/change in a favorable 
> manner)"} is treated as {zabna fa lo nu X1 binxo X2 X3 [X4 ...]}
> While {binxo gasnu -> bixygau "to (change something else / cause something 
> else to change)"} is treated as {X1 gasnu lo nu X2 binxo X3 X4 [X5 ...]}
>
> Unfortunately this causes clashes when two "promiscuous" gismu meet! What 
> exactly would {zangau} mean?
>
> It could mean {zabna fa lo nu X1 gasnu X2} (roughly "does good deeds / 
> does favors"), or it could mean {X1 gasnu lo nu X2 zabna X3 X4} (possibly 
> "to bless")!
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">One solution I thought of might be to ditch the school of =
thought that all lujvo that have the same ve lujvo are equivalent and compl=
etely interchangeable<div>Thus {zangasnu} could be&nbsp;{zabna fa lo nu X1 =
gasnu X2},</div><div>While {zabnygau} could be&nbsp;{X1 gasnu lo nu X2 zabn=
a X3 X4}</div><div><br></div><div>{ta'ocu'i pe'i} that Lojban as-is relies =
way too much on the short rafsi anyway, which may inhibit learning it natur=
ally. For example, {snura} "to be safe/secure", often gets combined with {g=
asnu} to make {nurgau} "to secure/protect". But that relies on the student =
remembering the rafsi of a not-quite-so-promiscuous gismu. It would probabl=
y be much easier to see the connection if the "standard form" remains {snur=
ygau}.</div><div><br></div><div>But there are probably some downsides too..=
.<br><br>On Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 9:42:45 PM UTC+8, Spheniscine (la zipc=
pi) wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left:=
 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">Cer=
tain gismu have, over time, become treated like "prefixes" and "suffixes"; =
they are used for many lujvo, and they make them in a highly predictable ma=
nner.<div><br></div><div>For example: {zabna binxo -&gt; zanbi'o "to (impro=
ve/change in a favorable manner)"} is treated as {zabna fa lo nu X1 binxo X=
2 X3 [X4 ...]}</div><div>While {binxo gasnu -&gt; bixygau "to (change somet=
hing else / cause something else to change)"} is treated as {X1 gasnu lo nu=
 X2 binxo X3 X4 [X5 ...]}</div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately this cause=
s clashes when two "promiscuous" gismu meet! What exactly would {zangau} me=
an?</div><div><br></div><div>It could mean {zabna fa lo nu X1 gasnu X2} (ro=
ughly "does good deeds / does favors"), or it could mean {X1 gasnu lo nu X2=
 zabna X3 X4} (possibly "to bless")!</div></div></blockquote></div></div>

<p></p>

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