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[69.168.97.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f17si751781igt.0.2015.05.14.04.21.06 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 May 2015 04:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) client-ip=69.168.97.48; X-Authed-Username: cGhtYUBodWdoZXMubmV0 X_CMAE_Category: 0,0 Undefined,Undefined X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=ZujUdbLG c=1 sm=0 tr=0 a=8WxDmEN+yG9ijBF2nxzWZQ==:117 a=8WxDmEN+yG9ijBF2nxzWZQ==:17 a=K-v-2zaBAAAA:8 a=B1-hNj924W8A:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=JNFw9bs7AAAA:8 a=h1PgugrvaO0A:10 a=moQhkgjskzieQjxkOrIA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine Received-SPF: neutral (smtp02.hughes.cmh.synacor.com: 45.37.90.97 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of bezitopo.org) Received: from [45.37.90.97] ([45.37.90.97:37711] helo=bezitopo.org) by smtp.hughes.net (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.49 r(42060/42061)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-SHA) id 52/88-08210-12584555; Thu, 14 May 2015 07:21:05 -0400 Received: from caracal.localnet (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bezitopo.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3896185E for ; Thu, 14 May 2015 07:21:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Possible polysemy clashes for "regular affixes" in lujvo? Date: Thu, 14 May 2015 07:21:01 -0400 Message-ID: <2815661.sajAn3Zckj@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.13.3 (Linux/3.13.0-49-generic; KDE/4.13.3; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <04cecf13-9f41-4589-9e37-e3987ef53330@googlegroups.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Original-Sender: phma@bezitopo.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 69.168.97.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of phma@bezitopo.org) smtp.mail=phma@bezitopo.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 19:15:19 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > In both examples case changes only for the first two places. "from" and > "to" prepositions stay the same. > However, for -gau and -bi'o lujvo one has to mentally shift the place > structure. So instead of {mi djuno fi do} you get {ra jungau mi fo do}. > This may be harder to use since you have to learn two place structure > whereas in major world languages almost one. Lojban doesn't have accusative or ergative morphosyntactic alignment. It ha= s=20 an indefinitely long series of numbered places. English has four numbered= =20 places (the fourth is quite rarely used) and can move 2 to 1 or 3 to 1 (mov= ing=20 1 to a place tagged by "by"), but doesn't shift them the way Lojban does. Children have no problem learning ergative languages. I see no reason why= =20 children can't learn place-shift languages. It's adults that have problems= =20 learning a different kind of language than they're used to. Pierre --=20 When a barnacle settles down, its brain disintegrates. J=C3=A1 n=C3=A3o percebe nada, j=C3=A1 n=C3=A3o percebe nada. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.