Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 22:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Spheniscine (la zipcpi)" <spheniscine@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <bc3af5b8-c93e-4f87-bd30-143fae87ab98@googlegroups.com>
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References: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on the
 problem of dates and times?
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Actually the discussion about periods has led to more than how to just=20
represent units of time; but also concepts like miles per hour, meters per=
=20
second-squared, etc.

I have been told about the existence of two experimental cmavo, {pi'ai}=20
(multiplication prefix, in selma'o KE) and {te'ai} (exponentiation=20
subscript, in selma'o XI) that can be used for specialized tanru. So 30=20
miles per hour =3D lo pi'ai minli cacra te'ai ni'upa be li cino , and 9.8=
=20
meters per second-squared =3D lo pi'ai mitre snidu te'ai ni'ure be li sopib=
i=20
. Unfortunately these constructions can be a little long.

One crazy idea I thought of was... what if we had a PA cmavo for every unit=
=20
of measurement? After all, they are treated much like algebraic constants=
=20
in calculations. So assuming [mai'i] =3D minli and [cai'ai] =3D cacra, you =
can=20
have have 30 miles per hour =3D li cino pi'i mai'i fe'i cai'ai , or assumin=
g=20
[nai'a] for year and [jei'i] for day, three years and four days =3D li ci=
=20
pi'i nai'a su'i vo pi'i jei'i (fau'u rodo I forgot if Lojban mathematical=
=20
precedence works this way, or if I need mathematical brackets which I=20
forgot how to use). Do we nearly have the cmavo space for this though, and=
=20
would the semantic hooks be enough? Also they might still be a tad long -=
=20
do we really need all these pi'i-s?

You see, the main barrier to Lojbanizing mathematical and scientific=20
conventions is that mathematical variables are so often overloaded, as=20
there are only so many letters to go around. Even the familiar symbol of =
=CF=80=20
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(letter)> is given many other meanings=20
besides the ratio of the circumference to the diameter.=20

But Lojban, on the other hand, has a theoretically-infinite number of words=
=20
to assign to these variables to. Unfortunately though, syllabicity is still=
=20
a practical issue. The constraints of cmavo space is another; consonants=20
provide more bits than vowels and diphthongs do, but a cmavo is only=20
allowed one consonant at the beginning.

--=20
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Actually the discussion about periods has led to more than=
 how to just represent units of time; but also concepts like miles per hour=
, meters per second-squared, etc.<div><br></div><div>I have been told about=
 the existence of two experimental cmavo, {pi'ai} (multiplication prefix, i=
n selma'o KE) and {te'ai} (exponentiation subscript, in selma'o XI) that ca=
n be used for specialized tanru. So 30 miles per hour =3D lo pi'ai minli ca=
cra te'ai ni'upa be li cino , and 9.8 meters per second-squared =3D lo pi'a=
i mitre snidu te'ai ni'ure be li sopibi . Unfortunately these constructions=
 can be a little long.</div><div><br></div><div>One crazy idea I thought of=
 was... what if we had a PA cmavo for every unit of measurement? After all,=
 they are treated much like algebraic constants in calculations. So assumin=
g [mai'i] =3D minli and [cai'ai] =3D cacra, you can have have 30 miles per =
hour =3D li cino pi'i mai'i fe'i cai'ai , or assuming [nai'a] for year and =
[jei'i] for day, three years and four days =3D li ci pi'i nai'a su'i vo pi'=
i jei'i (fau'u rodo I forgot if Lojban mathematical precedence works this w=
ay, or if I need mathematical brackets which I forgot how to use). Do we ne=
arly have the cmavo space for this though, and would the semantic hooks be =
enough? Also they might still be a tad long - do we really need all these p=
i'i-s?</div><div><br></div><div>You see, the main barrier to Lojbanizing ma=
thematical and scientific conventions is that mathematical variables are so=
 often overloaded, as there are only so many letters to go around. Even the=
 <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi_(letter)">familiar symbol of&nb=
sp;=CF=80</a> is given many other meanings besides the ratio of the circumf=
erence to the diameter.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>But Lojban, on the o=
ther hand, has a theoretically-infinite number of words to assign to these =
variables to. Unfortunately though, syllabicity is still a practical issue.=
 The constraints of cmavo space is another; consonants provide more bits th=
an vowels and diphthongs do, but a cmavo is only allowed one consonant at t=
he beginning.</div></div>

<p></p>

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