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Subject: Re: [lojban] {la .alis.} book
From: Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
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Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 23:05:53 +0100
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On 27 May 2015, at 18:49, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:

>> A pause of indeterminate length is a phoneme?
>=20
> A pause of indeterminate length is phonetic realization of a phoneme.

As you wish. I love oddball linguistics. :-)

> Lojban's design is not at all optimized to make life easy for its learner=
s or speakers. Its users could adopt conventions that eschew many elements =
of its design, in order to make life easier for its users, but that require=
s a consensus in usage and entails a de facto repudiation of those many ele=
ments eschewed.

Logical referents but semilogical structure? Okay.=20

>>> A rough analogy from English is the omissibility of _that_ from the sta=
rt of complement clauses (e.g. "He knows (that) she is"): what lunatic woul=
d 'regularize' an English text by restoring every omitted _that_? And would=
 you make overt *every* covert terminator?
>>=20
>> It seems to me that a [conjunction] is different from a state process.
>=20
> I don't understand what a 'state process' is. Like Lojban's terminators, =
clausal ('subordinating conjunction', 'complementizer') _that_ is usually b=
ut not always omissible without affecting sentence meaning.

Well, there=E2=80=99s a particle to start a paragraph (terminated by the ne=
xt particle of the same kind), and one to start a sentence (terminated by t=
he next particle of the same kind), and one to begin and end a citation (bo=
th particles used), and one to begin and end a metalingusitic interpolation=
 (but the terminator is optional because you can use non-structural informa=
tion to know when it terminates).=20

> (With regard to the _that_ that introduces relative clauses, the case for=
 analysing bare relatives as containing a null _that_ is more complicated a=
nd hence perhaps weaker than the case for analysing bare complement clauses=
 as containing a null _that_.)

I don=E2=80=99t see that as analogous, really.=20

>> If lu/li=E2=80=99u is regular, why shouldn=E2=80=99t sei/se=E2=80=99u be=
?
>=20
> sei/se'u is regular; it just is regular according to rules less simple th=
an you would prefer.

Well, it does make it impossible to apply punctuation automatically, since =
the only way that one could do so is to have a script that would parse a va=
riable-lengths string following =E2=80=9Csei=E2=80=9D to find the word of t=
he selbri class. Not that the application of punctuation is a goal of Lojba=
n.=20

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/

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