Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 02:14:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <884b3156-d02e-427c-9a31-788cee4ef966@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] {ciftoldi}. caterpillar is not a cifnu
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The only mentioning of the concept of "larva" in JVS is this word:

{ciftoldi} = "x1 is a caterpillar (larva of butterfly or moth - not sawfly) 
of species x2."
However, {cifnu} = "x1 is an infant/baby [helpless through youth/incomplete 
development] of species x2."

I think (although it is supposed to be a naljvajvo or even a cimjvo) a 
semantic shift of the concept of {cifnu} since caterpillar is no more 
helpless than imago.

Compare stages:
With metamorphosis, e.g. butterflies:
1. sperm/ovum
2. egg
3. laid egg
4. larva
5. imago
Cangaroos:
1. sperm/ovum
2. egg
3. newborn (helpless)
slowly turning into
4. adult
Humans:
1. sperm/ovum
2. egg
3. newborn (helpless)
slowly turning into
4. adult
Tardigrades:
1. sperm/ovum
2. laid egg => fertilisation
3. newborn (full complement of adult cells)
slowly growing (via the size of cells, not their number) into
4. adult

So although {cifnu} probably can be applied to humans and cangaroos I can't 
see such a stage for butterflies and tardigrades. Thus, I think that such 
anthropomorphism in applying {cif-} rafsi to larva stage should be avoided 
and probably separate brivla should be used instead.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">The only mentioning of the concept of "larva" in JVS is th=
is word:<div><br></div><div><div>{ciftoldi} =3D "x1 is a caterpillar (larva=
 of butterfly or moth - not sawfly) of species x2."</div></div><div>However=
, {cifnu} =3D "x1 is an infant/baby [helpless through youth/incomplete deve=
lopment] of species x2."</div><div><br></div><div>I think (although it is s=
upposed to be a naljvajvo or even a cimjvo) a semantic shift of the concept=
 of {cifnu} since caterpillar is no more helpless than imago.</div><div><br=
></div><div>Compare stages:</div><div>With metamorphosis, e.g. butterflies:=
<br></div><div>1. sperm/ovum</div><div>2. egg</div><div>3. laid egg</div><d=
iv>4. larva</div><div>5. imago</div><div>Cangaroos:</div><div>1. sperm/ovum=
<br></div><div><div>2. egg</div><div>3. newborn (helpless)</div><div>slowly=
 turning into</div><div>4. adult<br></div></div><div><div>Humans:</div><div=
>1. sperm/ovum<br></div><div><div>2. egg</div><div>3. newborn (helpless)</d=
iv><div>slowly turning into</div><div>4. adult<br></div></div></div><div><d=
iv>Tardigrades:</div><div>1. sperm/ovum<br></div><div><div>2. laid egg =3D&=
gt; fertilisation</div><div>3. newborn (full complement of adult cells)</di=
v><div>slowly growing (via the size of cells, not their number) into</div><=
div>4. adult<br></div></div></div><div><br></div><div>So although {cifnu} p=
robably can be applied to humans and cangaroos I can't see such a stage for=
 butterflies and tardigrades. Thus, I think that such anthropomorphism in a=
pplying {cif-} rafsi to larva stage should be avoided and probably separate=
 brivla should be used instead.</div></div>

<p></p>

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