Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 05:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <c72dfc02-78f2-4d74-b08e-3b18709f1b82@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com>
References: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on the
 problem of dates and times?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
	boundary="----=_Part_1099_211897477.1433074943422"
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -3.1
X-Spam_score_int: -30
X-Spam_bar: ---

------=_Part_1099_211897477.1433074943422
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_1100_833009213.1433074943423"

------=_Part_1100_833009213.1433074943423
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 8:56:43 PM UTC+3, Spheniscine (la zipcpi) wrote:
>
>
> http://mw.lojban.org/papri/Proposal:_loi_lerfu_tcita_detri;_the_final_word_on_the_problem_of_dates_and_times%3F
>

I'd say that this is by far the best usable method of talking about both 
dates and periods.

The problem with the original {de'i} is that one can never know what {de'i 
li 7} means. Whether it's year 7 AD, December, day 7 of some month, week 
No. 7 of some year or even Sunday or Saturday.
L4B solves this problem by stating that one number after {de'i} denotes 
day, two number denote DD/MM etc. with {pi'e} being a separator.

This letteral solution 
1. allows for free "word" order, 
2. solves period/datetimestamp problem within one brivla/tag although 
{ti'u} can be a convenient addition to {de'i}
3. doesn't fill the dictionary with numerous words

Disadvantages:
a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An expansion 
of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purposes no matter 
how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyday usage is 
irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansion since it is 
one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations like {ca}/date, 
{ze'a}/period are to be explained.
b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entities is 
usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not needed so 
in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy.
c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of 
countries.

We should also note that in most major languages both "month" and "minute" 
start from the same letter which ultimately led to {masti} and {mentu} to 
start with the same letter. This solution doesn't actually involve current 
brivla for time periods so using {ly} for "calendar month" might not even 
lead to the need in making a brivla for "month" starting with "l-". 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------=_Part_1100_833009213.1433074943423
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">On Sunday, May 17, 2015 at 8:56:43 PM UTC+3, Spheniscine (=
la zipcpi) wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margi=
n-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/papri/Proposal:_loi_lerfu_tcita_detri;_=
the_final_word_on_the_problem_of_dates_and_times%3F" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"nofollow" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75htt=
p%3A%2F%2Fmw.lojban.org%2Fpapri%2FProposal%3A_loi_lerfu_tcita_detri%3B_the_=
final_word_on_the_problem_of_dates_and_times%253F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46us=
g\75AFQjCNGNv6zRRH2iqtIGPaIGhXe_NhNTHA';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=
=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fmw.lojban.org%2Fpapri%2FProp=
osal%3A_loi_lerfu_tcita_detri%3B_the_final_word_on_the_problem_of_dates_and=
_times%253F\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNGNv6zRRH2iqtIGPaIGhXe_NhNTHA=
';return true;">http://mw.lojban.org/papri/<wbr>Proposal:_loi_lerfu_tcita_<=
wbr>detri;_the_final_word_on_the_<wbr>problem_of_dates_and_times%3F</a></di=
v></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'd say that this is by far the best usa=
ble method of talking about both dates and periods.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>The problem with the original {de'i} is that one can never know what {de'=
i li 7} means. Whether it's year 7 AD, December, day 7 of some month, week =
No. 7 of some year or even Sunday or Saturday.</div><div>L4B solves this pr=
oblem by stating that one number after {de'i} denotes day, two number denot=
e DD/MM etc. with {pi'e} being a separator.</div><div><br></div><div>This l=
etteral solution&nbsp;</div><div>1. allows for free "word" order,&nbsp;</di=
v><div>2. solves period/datetimestamp problem within one brivla/tag althoug=
h {ti'u} can be a convenient addition to {de'i}</div><div>3. doesn't fill t=
he dictionary with numerous words</div><div><br></div><div>Disadvantages:</=
div><div>a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An e=
xpansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purposes n=
o matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyday usa=
ge is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansion since=
 it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations like {ca}/=
date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained.</div><div>b. Those are new rules i=
njected into the language. Multiplying entities is usually not good. Althou=
gh they actually make {pi'e} solution not needed so in total the required p=
art of the language becomes less heavy.</div><div>c. timezone can't be easi=
ly specified inside {de'i} using names of countries.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>We should also note that in most major languages both "month" and "minut=
e" start from the same letter which ultimately led to {masti} and {mentu} t=
o start with the same letter. This solution doesn't actually involve curren=
t brivla for time periods so using {ly} for "calendar month" might not even=
 lead to the need in making a brivla for "month" starting with "l-".&nbsp;<=
/div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

------=_Part_1100_833009213.1433074943423--
------=_Part_1099_211897477.1433074943422--