Received: from mail-wg0-f57.google.com ([74.125.82.57]:33841) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1YzJcc-0001p0-DG for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:56 -0700 Received: by wggx12 with SMTP id x12sf35564602wgg.1 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=prXKiu2X4dUL6rYFXr5vvchmN2mCmEGFGiSk/I66r6s=; b=X1jgL9jnILFWyyYJBUeuGlSuta/Nwqqw1NAUi+B92IAJt664t6MLQO/U2ltBr+G5ni spG542cjnNu+DS3daMglA1x7uWzO3Na1nw9mWbraDGcn62Q458nGSZ1ycSILPjDjUtFI MnH2oBXtijqN1KIKDtPwzaNAgZKOqjHf4TjqmXrWqYybpuZmg3Yk6o6azeNcGMRpMYNV 59YzLg1rPZV0it9J0GXVjIHjFBEbxSMvyCowcbB8/sdblvofnOn4VYyeJGWuXo7cMUio gL/0azAx0cIn0lK18xIGjsGsfP2wFfHe/8aT9rtrk2VGDZHjpfMuNmEDzh3DEvwxhASN O1zA== X-Received: by 10.180.98.234 with SMTP id el10mr48684wib.9.1433141687884; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.105.36 with SMTP id gj4ls578873wib.37.canary; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.83.72 with SMTP id o8mr10275205wiy.3.1433141687253; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22e.google.com (mail-wg0-x22e.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ec7si446282wib.3.2015.05.31.23.54.47 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e; Received: by mail-wg0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 5so105636635wgv.1 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.90.228 with SMTP id bz4mr17944635wib.69.1433141687119; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.221.167 with HTTP; Sun, 31 May 2015 23:54:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 09:54:26 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on the problem of dates and times? To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043be0a62c778605176f4d9b X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --f46d043be0a62c778605176f4d9b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki > wrote: >> >> Disadvantages: >> a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An >> expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purpos= es >> no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyday >> usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansion >> since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations li= ke >> {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained. >> b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entities >> is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not nee= ded >> so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy. >> c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of >> countries. >> > > d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings become > disentangled from letter strings. > e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major languages the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still be needed. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d043be0a62c778605176f4d9b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.co= m>:


On= Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.c= om> wrote:
Disadvantages:
a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's = not a predicate language. An expansion of these rules into predicates is ne= eded for linguistic purposes no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i= .e. its value for everyday usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be exp= lained in this expansion since it is one of the few "splicing time int= erval" brivla. relations like {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be e= xplained.
b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Mult= iplying entities is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e= } solution not needed so in total the required part of the language becomes= less heavy.
c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de= 'i} using names of countries.

d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings becom= e disentangled from letter strings.

e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {s= e detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short expression, same for months. So to= imitate major languages the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equ= ivalents) might still be needed.



mu'o mi'e xorxes

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