Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 00:27:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on
 the problem of dates and times?
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Le lundi 1 juin 2015 06:54:48 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
>
> 2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjlla...@gmail.com>:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki <gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Disadvantages:
>>> a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An=20
>>> expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purpo=
ses=20
>>> no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyda=
y=20
>>> usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansio=
n=20
>>> since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations l=
ike=20
>>> {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained.
>>> b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entities=
=20
>>> is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not ne=
eded=20
>>> so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy.
>>> c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of=20
>>> countries.
>>>
>>
>> d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings become=20
>> disentangled from letter strings.
>>
>
> e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa},=
=20
> not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major languag=
es=20
> the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still b=
e=20
> needed.
>
>
 The current topic is related to usage of BAI, and not related to brivla=20
for names of [months/days of a week]. The item e. therefore should not to=
=20
be counted. On the otherhand, the item d. is much important for me to=20
disagree the proposal.


Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:04:56 UTC, Spheniscine (la zipcpi) a =C3=A9crit :
>
> e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa},=
=20
>> not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major langua=
ges=20
>> the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still =
be=20
>> needed.
>>
>
> Yeah I can see that. {ca de'i li jydy xo} is still probably the best way=
=20
> to ask "What day of the week is it" though; I mean, {lo cabdei cu mo} is=
=20
> rather ambiguous :p
>

Currently, {de'i'u xo} is the shortest and unambiguous. For brivla form,=20
{ma jefydeidetri lo nu broda} is unambiguous.

For a point on time axis in merging {de'i} and {ti'u}, {te'i} can be=20
applied:=20
mi ciska te'i li 2015-06-01 07:27 noi sinxa lo mentu ku'o tete'i U'yTyCy
.i
mi ciska te'i li 2457174.810416667 tete'i la juli'us

mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>Le lundi 1 juin 2015 06:54:48 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9cr=
it&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-l=
eft-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote">2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas&nbsp;<sp=
an dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"MnY7kkfRsf=
0J" rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 17, 204);">jjlla...@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204=
); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki&nb=
sp;<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"MnY7=
kkfRsf0J" rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 17, 204);">gleki.is...@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>&nbsp;wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: r=
gb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div>Disadvantages:</div><div>a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's =
not a predicate language. An expansion of these rules into predicates is ne=
eded for linguistic purposes no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i=
.e. its value for everyday usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be exp=
lained in this expansion since it is one of the few "splicing time interval=
" brivla. relations like {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained.</div=
><div>b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entiti=
es is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not nee=
ded so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy.</div>=
<div>c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of cou=
ntries.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>d. It will break down i=
f (and hopefully when) digit strings become disentangled from letter string=
s.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>e. To say "Monda=
y" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short ex=
pression, same for months. So to imitate major languages the 7+12 extra wor=
ds (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still be needed.</div><div>=
</div></div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;The curr=
ent topic is related to usage of BAI, and not related to brivla for names o=
f [months/days of a week]. The item e. therefore should not to be counted. =
On the otherhand, the item d. is much important for me to disagree the prop=
osal.</div><div><br></div><br>Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:04:56 UTC, Spheniscin=
e (la zipcpi) a =C3=A9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(=
204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; b=
order-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-s=
tyle: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort=
 to {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short expression, same for months.=
 So to imitate major languages the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. =
or equivalents) might still be needed.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
Yeah I can see that. {ca de'i li jydy xo} is still probably the best way to=
 ask "What day of the week is it" though; I mean, {lo cabdei cu mo} is rath=
er ambiguous :p</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Currently, {de'=
i'u xo} is the shortest and unambiguous. For brivla form, {ma jefydeidetri =
lo nu broda} is unambiguous.</div><div><br></div><div>For a point on time a=
xis in merging {de'i} and {ti'u}, {te'i} can be applied:&nbsp;</div><div>mi=
 ciska te'i li 2015-06-01 07:27 noi sinxa lo mentu ku'o tete'i U'yTyCy</div=
><div>.i</div><div>mi ciska te'i li&nbsp;2457174.810416667 tete'i la juli'u=
s</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o</div></div>

<p></p>

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