Received: from mail-yk0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]:34041) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1YzKEo-0002z3-Ho for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 00:34:31 -0700 Received: by ykp9 with SMTP id 9sf30538068ykp.1 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 00:34:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=sdhIrHSTvB13NqEIV7lcdnf2gvhtmZZWRilR+pS/ohk=; b=Uwbua5/Gb13n3NspsOtCdXyq8sScuXJk2XqDqwSrHFzBVHv3751u/9Ikc+ajIXDIvr i+CGRhoZHUWkDyOGbHpWnvvR9e4OD8fL5hf/NmQdKmA5GkBIq3Z05A6u6xiJfFo2fBmc aslKZYBZmpRRmLYbzJNarnEh6oqQx9s+OXx3/i1Hemm0EmS+LflNZmiPAAL2KNJQ7z05 X6y9mCbcifVmxA6OKzpHz6Hr1TF4s8wpt4UIXAejIaOg7PX8y7HS6m4eF1RskHWiCUV3 4FfguHzQe/lApqKpvv6gC9ijTVovG5s9cGuTW6vEgqR+t17oiBMNHbAudyQv7nvCUvf1 kECg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=sdhIrHSTvB13NqEIV7lcdnf2gvhtmZZWRilR+pS/ohk=; b=obEkrlFXaR20nFkGvorIJ+Yc6pOhhsv8aEOIPYft2dwLZj5Bz9mCYvNrveUJJPPNIp Y9ca3q54DmFgQES+qy/ecnRi+/3qge/8lN8mHZq9OFiyd/0EIfLC8KJeJ72ilMAJG2yf zeVYDAvVSa/TZdenokZvFEz1LS2QPEvzUV4v6xaQr88kpyabaclM14HMnnIRqkf0HK0u 6ewCCt7ocVInm3oW0T2JNHl0OiRUjLLbn4DqBQSShGh3j3XlWdy4J1+CMacMKKgc2yN6 eyyPCyxO4yWb5ui430zlws1U6H+gMr1cbhOeETLxHj9RiWDSqXBDKNCWAjprNoqSTcZr EVkw== X-Received: by 10.50.50.179 with SMTP id d19mr120832igo.0.1433144056576; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 00:34:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.107.163.195 with SMTP id m186ls1751455ioe.59.gmail; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 00:34:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.82.8 with SMTP id e8mr121765igy.7.1433144056034; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 00:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 00:34:14 -0700 (PDT) From: guskant To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3420744b-1514-4609-87f7-5b00e96760fc@googlegroups.com> References: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com> <3420744b-1514-4609-87f7-5b00e96760fc@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on the problem of dates and times? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_313_272386157.1433144054889" X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_313_272386157.1433144054889 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_314_1706488942.1433144054889" ------=_Part_314_1706488942.1433144054889 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:27:57 UTC, guskant a =C3=A9crit : > > > Le lundi 1 juin 2015 06:54:48 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : >> >> >> >> 2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki wrote= : >>>> >>>> Disadvantages: >>>> a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An=20 >>>> expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purp= oses=20 >>>> no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyd= ay=20 >>>> usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansi= on=20 >>>> since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations = like=20 >>>> {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained. >>>> b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entitie= s=20 >>>> is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not n= eeded=20 >>>> so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy. >>>> c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of=20 >>>> countries. >>>> >>> >>> d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings become=20 >>> disentangled from letter strings. >>> >> >> e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa},= =20 >> not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major langua= ges=20 >> the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still = be=20 >> needed. >> >> > The current topic is related to usage of BAI, and not related to brivla= =20 > for names of [months/days of a week]. The item e. therefore should not to= =20 > be counted. On the otherhand, the item d. is much important for me to=20 > disagree the proposal. > > > Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:04:56 UTC, Spheniscine (la zipcpi) a =C3=A9crit : >> >> e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa},= =20 >>> not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major langu= ages=20 >>> the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still= be=20 >>> needed. >>> >> >> Yeah I can see that. {ca de'i li jydy xo} is still probably the best way= =20 >> to ask "What day of the week is it" though; I mean, {lo cabdei cu mo} is= =20 >> rather ambiguous :p >> > > Currently, {de'i'u xo} is the shortest and unambiguous. For brivla form,= =20 > {ma jefydeidetri lo nu broda} is unambiguous. > > Sorry again, {de'i'u ma} is the shortest, not {xo}. We may say {de'i'u li= =20 xo} instead, of course. mu'o --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_314_1706488942.1433144054889 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:27:57 UTC, guskant a =C3= =A9crit :

Le lundi 1 juin 2015 06:54:48 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit :


2015-05-= 31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjlla...@gmail.com>:


On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki <<= a rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color:rgb(102,17,204)">gleki.is...@gmail.com> wrote:
Disadva= ntages:
a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate langu= age. An expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic p= urposes no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for eve= ryday usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expans= ion since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations l= ike {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained.
b. Those are ne= w rules injected into the language. Multiplying entities is usually not goo= d. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not needed so in total the r= equired part of the language becomes less heavy.
c. timezone can'= t be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of countries.

d. It will break down if (and hopefully when= ) digit strings become disentangled from letter strings.
<= /div>

e. To say "Monday" one will have to r= esort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short expression, same for mo= nths. So to imitate major languages the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti = etc. or equivalents) might still be needed.


 The current topic is related = to usage of BAI, and not related to brivla for names of [months/days of a w= eek]. The item e. therefore should not to be counted. On the otherhand, the= item d. is much important for me to disagree the proposal.

<= /div>
Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:04:56 UTC, Spheniscine (la zipcpi) a =C3= =A9crit :
e. To say = "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very sh= ort expression, same for months. So to imitate major languages the 7+12 ext= ra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still be needed.
<= /blockquote>

Yeah I can see that. {ca de'i li jydy xo} i= s still probably the best way to ask "What day of the week is it" though; I= mean, {lo cabdei cu mo} is rather ambiguous :p

Currently, {de'i'u xo} is the shortest and unambiguous. Fo= r brivla form, {ma jefydeidetri lo nu broda} is unambiguous.

=

Sorry again, {de'i'u ma} is th= e shortest, not {xo}. We may say {de'i'u li xo} instead, of course.

 mu'o

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