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[2a00:1450:400c:c00::231]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ha2si194843wib.1.2015.06.01.01.10.56 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Jun 2015 01:10:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::231 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::231; Received: by mail-wg0-x231.google.com with SMTP id e6so107019435wgm.2 for ; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 01:10:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.72.145 with SMTP id d17mr18510800wiv.69.1433146256178; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 01:10:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.221.167 with HTTP; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 01:10:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3420744b-1514-4609-87f7-5b00e96760fc@googlegroups.com> References: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com> <3420744b-1514-4609-87f7-5b00e96760fc@googlegroups.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 11:10:34 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on the problem of dates and times? To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=14dae9cc949282c3cb0517705d56 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::231 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Spam_score: -3.0 X-Spam_score_int: -29 X-Spam_bar: --- --14dae9cc949282c3cb0517705d56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2015-06-01 10:27 GMT+03:00 guskant : > > Le lundi 1 juin 2015 06:54:48 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : >> >> >> >> 2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki wrote= : >>>> >>>> Disadvantages: >>>> a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An >>>> expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purp= oses >>>> no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyd= ay >>>> usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansi= on >>>> since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations = like >>>> {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained. >>>> b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entitie= s >>>> is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not n= eeded >>>> so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy. >>>> c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of >>>> countries. >>>> >>> >>> d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings become >>> disentangled from letter strings. >>> >> >> e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, >> not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major langua= ges >> the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still = be >> needed. >> >> > The current topic is related to usage of BAI, and not related to brivla > for names of [months/days of a week]. The item e. therefore should not to > be counted. On the otherhand, the item d. is much important for me to > disagree the proposal. > > > Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:04:56 UTC, Spheniscine (la zipcpi) a =C3=A9crit : >> >> e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, >>> not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major langu= ages >>> the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still= be >>> needed. >>> >> >> Yeah I can see that. {ca de'i li jydy xo} is still probably the best way >> to ask "What day of the week is it" though; I mean, {lo cabdei cu mo} is >> rather ambiguous :p >> > > Currently, {de'i'u xo} is the shortest and unambiguous. > Well, conciseness is to be counted by assessing multiple test sentences in total. E.g. what is the shortest "In Monday, Jan. 1" in the two (three counting xorxe's proposal) systems etc. For brivla form, {ma jefydeidetri lo nu broda} is unambiguous. > > For a point on time axis in merging {de'i} and {ti'u}, {te'i} can be > applied: > mi ciska te'i li 2015-06-01 07:27 noi sinxa lo mentu ku'o tete'i U'yTyCy > .i > mi ciska te'i li 2457174.810416667 tete'i la juli'us > > mu'o > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --14dae9cc949282c3cb0517705d56 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-06-01 10:27 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com><= /span>:

Le lundi 1 j= uin 2015 06:54:48 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:


2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:0= 0 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas=C2=A0<jjlla...@gmail.com>:


On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki=C2=A0<= gleki.is...@gmail.com>=C2=A0wrote:
Disadvantag= es:
a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predica= te language. An expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for ling= uistic purposes no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value= for everyday usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in thi= s expansion since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" b= rivla. relations like {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained.
b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entit= ies is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution no= t needed so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy.<= /div>
c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using= names of countries.

d. It will= break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings become disentangled from = letter strings.

<= span class=3D"">
e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort t= o {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short expression, same for months. S= o to imitate major languages the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or= equivalents) might still be needed.




Le lundi 1 juin 2015 07:04:56 UTC, Spheniscine (l= a zipcpi) a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:
e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be l= i jydy pa}, not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate maj= or languages the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) mi= ght still be needed.

Yeah I can see tha= t. {ca de'i li jydy xo} is still probably the best way to ask "Wha= t day of the week is it" though; I mean, {lo cabdei cu mo} is rather a= mbiguous :p

Currently, {= de'i'u xo} is the shortest and unambiguous.

Well, conciseness is to be counted by assessing multip= le test sentences in total. E.g. what is the shortest "In Monday, Jan.= 1" in the two (three counting xorxe's proposal) systems etc.


For brivla form, {ma jefydeidetri lo nu broda} is unambiguous.

For a point on time axis in merging {de'i} and {= ti'u}, {te'i} can be applied:=C2=A0
mi ciska te'i li = 2015-06-01 07:27 noi sinxa lo mentu ku'o tete'i U'yTyCy
.i
mi ciska te'i li=C2=A02457174.810416667 tete'i la j= uli'us

mu'o

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