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[2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gt9si214744wib.2.2015.06.07.23.07.35 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 07 Jun 2015 23:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::235; Received: by mail-wi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id a1so73832647wig.0 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2015 23:07:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.109.229 with SMTP id hv5mr29667495wjb.119.1433743655810; Sun, 07 Jun 2015 23:07:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.221.167 with HTTP; Sun, 7 Jun 2015 23:07:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 09:07:15 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on the problem of dates and times? To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b60441a4dc9980517fb75f6 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7b60441a4dc9980517fb75f6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2015-06-01 9:54 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > > > 2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > >> >> >> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki >> wrote: >>> >>> Disadvantages: >>> a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An >>> expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purpo= ses >>> no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyda= y >>> usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansio= n >>> since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations l= ike >>> {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained. >>> b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entities >>> is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not ne= eded >>> so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy. >>> c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of >>> countries. >>> >> >> d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings become >> disentangled from letter strings. >> > > e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, > not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major languag= es > the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still b= e > needed. > And obviously this doesn't work for non-compatible calendars. E.g. the maya one who literally wrote 13.0.0.0.0 in Long Count. Again its expansion into mayan units such as k'in, winal, tun etc. are needed. And it's not clearly understandable how to sum up these units. And how to operate different units arithmetically in general. 2 miles + 3 km ~=3D 6km li mo'e lo minli be li re te'u su'i mo'e lo ki'otre be li ci ... ? is it the magic of both minli1, ki'otre1, mo'e and su'i that make those intervals not overlap? > > >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b60441a4dc9980517fb75f6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-06-01 9:54 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com>:


2015-05-3= 1 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la glek= i <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Disadvantages:
a. Like it's {pi'= e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An expansion of these rule= s into predicates is needed for linguistic purposes no matter how verbose t= he expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyday usage is irrelevant). {ci= tsi} also has to be explained in this expansion since it is one of the few = "splicing time interval" brivla. relations like {ca}/date, {ze= 9;a}/period are to be explained.
b. Those are new rules injected = into the language. Multiplying entities is usually not good. Although they = actually make {pi'e} solution not needed so in total the required part = of the language becomes less heavy.
c. timezone can't be easi= ly specified inside {de'i} using names of countries.

d. It will break down if (and hopefully wh= en) digit strings become disentangled from letter strings.

e. To say "Monday"= one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short expr= ession, same for months. So to imitate major languages the 7+12 extra words= (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still be needed.
<= /div>


And obviously th= is doesn't work for non-compatible calendars. E.g. the maya one who lit= erally wrote=C2=A013.0.0.0.0 in Long Count.
Again its expansion i= nto mayan units such as k'in, winal, tun etc. are needed. And it's = not clearly understandable how to sum up these units. And how to operate di= fferent units arithmetically in general.

2 miles += 3 km ~=3D 6km

li mo'e lo minli be li re te= 9;u su'i mo'e lo ki'otre be li ci ... ?

is it the magic of both minli1, ki'otre1, mo'e and su'i that = make those intervals not overlap?




mu&= #39;o mi'e xorxes

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