Received: from mail-wg0-f64.google.com ([74.125.82.64]:34419) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Z20v7-0006mN-N5 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:14 -0700 Received: by wggx12 with SMTP id x12sf39732741wgg.1 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=hyDijbTyI5N7zOcNeilkD5LpYIInGGxDuA55SRd2WZ8=; b=J8WBm3atUHY7a9Qmm+PIylhVeLqcnUz99R8UfzuyLYnllMGM0/cOTHsaLzHFHrqfPd 9UY2QDMxJv3ySxN2f8dhiFApUTvh7ExP/ul5X8B8u7IsGwpkdNE4/120as8cY9Svgsov N6v6lOagmPPWkq3NTi/wjuPlslLeSIUPPAcEOJSRGI/uMV2QKC3xDG/vR8fjyH1HnMSq Z7PwpoPKHKXdxdx22QspzWo586ns5BbB1QtGEDrXj9pcuoRRkXQdB6kTM6wDsAOZoWcu sH+CHcMLIH+f651V7VY8TI2++6ryNHUcs6H6uAVWkgcG7vLWRAgfLNG/xovLqxjj++KU aeOg== X-Received: by 10.180.36.49 with SMTP id n17mr74300wij.18.1433784782673; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.105.36 with SMTP id gj4ls983380wib.37.canary; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.36.172 with SMTP id r12mr13383053wij.6.1433784782034; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (mail-la0-x22a.google.com. [2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id su3si330069lbb.1.2015.06.08.10.33.02 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lamelnyk@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a; Received: by mail-la0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id w7so102175433lae.1 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.122.9 with SMTP id lo9mr18529406lbb.104.1433784781897; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 10:33:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <21d0528e-7ece-41ca-a9e3-f57b22cc3f43@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: From: Oleksii Melnyk Date: Mon, 08 Jun 2015 17:32:51 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Proposal: loi lerfu tcita detri; the final word on the problem of dates and times? To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b8741ee9c05be051805086c X-Original-Sender: lamelnyk@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lamelnyk@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lamelnyk@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Spam_score: -3.0 X-Spam_score_int: -29 X-Spam_bar: --- --047d7b8741ee9c05be051805086c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If mixing PA & BY in LI is such a controversial thing, why not use "la (PA*BY)*" instead? As far, as i (don't really) know that would harm no grammar, and, probably, would be the shortest alternative possible due to frequently skipped 'y's (ignore the wrong, capitalized tags): de'i la renopamuN feiL cipaD, or la reDYpaL, etc. On Mon, 8 Jun 2015 at 09:07 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > 2015-06-01 9:54 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > >> >> >> 2015-05-31 15:32 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Disadvantages: >>>> a. Like it's {pi'e} equivalent it's not a predicate language. An >>>> expansion of these rules into predicates is needed for linguistic purp= oses >>>> no matter how verbose the expansion will be (i.e. its value for everyd= ay >>>> usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also has to be explained in this expansi= on >>>> since it is one of the few "splicing time interval" brivla. relations = like >>>> {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period are to be explained. >>>> b. Those are new rules injected into the language. Multiplying entitie= s >>>> is usually not good. Although they actually make {pi'e} solution not n= eeded >>>> so in total the required part of the language becomes less heavy. >>>> c. timezone can't be easily specified inside {de'i} using names of >>>> countries. >>>> >>> >>> d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit strings become >>> disentangled from letter strings. >>> >> >> e. To say "Monday" one will have to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, >> not a very short expression, same for months. So to imitate major langua= ges >> the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, pavmasti etc. or equivalents) might still = be >> needed. >> > > > And obviously this doesn't work for non-compatible calendars. E.g. the > maya one who literally wrote 13.0.0.0.0 in Long Count. > Again its expansion into mayan units such as k'in, winal, tun etc. are > needed. And it's not clearly understandable how to sum up these units. An= d > how to operate different units arithmetically in general. > > 2 miles + 3 km ~=3D 6km > > li mo'e lo minli be li re te'u su'i mo'e lo ki'otre be li ci ... ? > > is it the magic of both minli1, ki'otre1, mo'e and su'i that make those > intervals not overlap? > > >> >> >>> mu'o mi'e xorxes >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b8741ee9c05be051805086c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If mixing PA & BY in LI is such a controversial thing,= why not use "la (PA*BY)*" instead? As far, as i (don't reall= y) know that would harm no grammar, and, probably, would be the shortest al= ternative possible due to frequently skipped 'y's (ignore the wrong= , capitalized tags): de'i la renopamuN feiL cipaD, or la reDYpaL, etc.=

On Mon, 8 Jun 201= 5 at 09:07 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
2015-06-01 9:54 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com>:


2015-05-31 15:32 GMT= +03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:


On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 9:22 AM, la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Disadvantages:
a. Like it's {pi'e} equivale= nt it's not a predicate language. An expansion of these rules into pred= icates is needed for linguistic purposes no matter how verbose the expansio= n will be (i.e. its value for everyday usage is irrelevant). {citsi} also h= as to be explained in this expansion since it is one of the few "splic= ing time interval" brivla. relations like {ca}/date, {ze'a}/period= are to be explained.
b. Those are new rules injected into the la= nguage. Multiplying entities is usually not good. Although they actually ma= ke {pi'e} solution not needed so in total the required part of the lang= uage becomes less heavy.
c. timezone can't be easily specifie= d inside {de'i} using names of countries.
=
d. It will break down if (and hopefully when) digit s= trings become disentangled from letter strings.

e. To say "Monday" one will h= ave to resort to {se detri be li jydy pa}, not a very short expression, sam= e for months. So to imitate major languages the 7+12 extra words (pavdei, p= avmasti etc. or equivalents) might still be needed.
=


And obviously= this doesn't work for non-compatible calendars. E.g. the maya one who = literally wrote=C2=A013.0.0.0.0 in Long Count.
Again its expansio= n into mayan units such as k'in, winal, tun etc. are needed. And it'= ;s not clearly understandable how to sum up these units. And how to operate= different units arithmetically in general.

2 mile= s + 3 km ~=3D 6km

li mo'e lo minli be li re te= 'u su'i mo'e lo ki'otre be li ci ... ?

=
is it the magic of both minli1, ki'otre1, mo'e and su'i th= at make those intervals not overlap?




mu'o mi'e xorxes

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