Received: from mail-pa0-f63.google.com ([209.85.220.63]:33105) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9zrC-0004T1-C4 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:02:13 -0700 Received: by padbh6 with SMTP id bh6sf5509471pad.0 for ; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=rOO3RMkmH1XSIVPlL/hk0o3w3Eu8xY7lzbuW4Hpe1fo=; b=Krq9n9Z3IrZMi7tzH/qFkcg7Jnyw6/QF86xlxm36y0tNydhvoQUtl5/JN5xhd2cF/X jafrVtTszW8gZID+m2o7Ml8Cess3U+UpOfhaRy1Xfxo3bDIVADbsxY6tsgugpkiJfYva hPEVDGiGyu6cFXRPZs1WQAaB56op6/zS6zXLnwf7R0PN2fb6qi8GTNas/14pQyAUjpJe q6v47yjjz9W0mJEeTijWCZ03s+a/7EzHKdf8VhHDRxiL4unic338nwayB9rdl85Fs5aJ Gv9cYkhtT402XW0Qi6rFv5giEHo2QDgklescKNqygKrIGrLSUlA2w0fziwSN6CTwPOft VToA== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=rOO3RMkmH1XSIVPlL/hk0o3w3Eu8xY7lzbuW4Hpe1fo=; b=GSBjqnu5j+iiU8tlooIt0dtofxsnzNMjnLjMsyn58CjYuuAftyqgEYMp6v03Hu47SC TYQ7QjbIsNlKCxhrZ+MNozxo3IoO90677/OoNxwzwUuE7eQXLWiwkFuV1eXhfJl9m0Qj fk8TqEFO4KXO83dOgcXbdcINqrt99Y3h1qIZMYMxMdtLuKlN/IlbYRmRAA4LFYEO4lOI uXoEHn3cKq8Oji7uaO0TIl3oe/rt/0H6U2bMRjI7RZLn632zYC7w5AvMSi1GPpZ08Tqc MDWKm3vhkn8PUc1fvjYNFsfnfahiRmCknSlZOz2ZwhxI0ExoR8p3+91lJRhsfCUr1x95 57Bw== X-Received: by 10.140.82.166 with SMTP id h35mr268725qgd.36.1435687318907; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:01:58 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.44.2 with SMTP id f2ls341411qga.57.gmail; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:01:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.140.37.129 with SMTP id r1mr265329qgr.18.1435687318665; Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 11:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: la durka To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <67e444ff-f4f1-4dc5-bdf5-032ca0a36ea5@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <20150630104955.12e1933b@W5.fritz.box> References: <20150630104955.12e1933b@W5.fritz.box> Subject: =?UTF-8?B?W2xvamJhbl0gUmU6IENMTCBlcnJhdHVtOiDigJwueWJ14oCdIHZzIOKAnC55LmJ14oCd?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_747_1596948231.1435687317907" X-Original-Sender: durka42@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -3.1 (---) X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_bar: --- ------=_Part_747_1596948231.1435687317907 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_748_658298211.1435687317907" ------=_Part_748_658298211.1435687317907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This isn't the only inconsistency in the CLL's morphology, and FWIW it's=20 fixed in the camxes morphology by special casing a {y} followed by {bu}. mu'o mi'e la durkavore El martes, 30 de junio de 2015, 4:50:00 (UTC-4), Wuzzy escribi=C3=B3: > > I think there is some inconsistency in the CLL regarding the letteral=20 > for =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D, the letteral construction rules, and the cmavo = =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D.=20 > > According to CLL, the letteral for =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D is =E2=80=9C.ybu= =E2=80=9D =20 > > > Therefore, the following table represents the basic Lojban alphabet:=20 > >=20 > > ' a b c d e=20 > > .y'y. .abu by. cy. dy. .ebu=20 > >=20 > > f g i j k l=20 > > fy. gy. .ibu jy. ky. ly.=20 > >=20 > > m n o p r s=20 > > my. ny. .obu py. ry. sy.=20 > >=20 > > t u v x y z=20 > > ty. .ubu vy. xy. .ybu zy.=20 > https://lojban.github.io/cll/17/2/=20 > > This is also reflected in jbovlaste. Here is the entry for =E2=80=9Cybu= =E2=80=9D:=20 > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/ybu=20 > > This is an =E2=80=9Cofficialdata=E2=80=9D entry.=20 > > > However, there is just one problem: The cmavo =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D require= s pauses=20 > before and after it:=20 > > In addition, there is the cmavo =E2=80=9C.y.=E2=80=9D (remember that = =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D is not a V),=20 > > which must have pauses before and after it.=20 > https://lojban.github.io/cll/4/2/=20 > > So, why is it =E2=80=9C.ybu=E2=80=9D and not =E2=80=9C.y.bu=E2=80=9D?=20 > > Note the CLL also presents =E2=80=9C.y'y.bu=E2=80=9D, not =E2=80=9C.y'ybu= =E2=80=9D, a few pages later.=20 > (and =E2=80=9Cvy.bu=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cky.bu=E2=80=9D).=20 > > I have found no rule in the CLL which would permit =E2=80=9C.ybu=E2=80=9D= . AFAIK=20 > the =E2=80=9Cperiod omitting rule=E2=80=9D only applies if spaces are use= d. So =E2=80=9Cy bu=E2=80=9D=20 > would be fine IMO.=20 > > For me this seems to be a pretty stupid oversight.=20 > > Could the responsible person or persons please quickly confirm this=20 > erratum? And resolve this conflict in the CLL?=20 > > Greetings!=20 > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_748_658298211.1435687317907 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This isn't the only inconsistency in the CLL's morphology,= and FWIW it's fixed in the camxes morphology by special casing a {y} follo= wed by {bu}.

mu'o mi'e la durkavore

El martes, 30 de junio de= 2015, 4:50:00 (UTC-4), Wuzzy escribi=C3=B3:
I think there is some inconsistency in the CLL regarding the = letteral
for =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D, the letteral construction rules, and the cmavo= =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D.

According to CLL, the letteral for =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D is =E2=80=9C.ybu= =E2=80=9D    =20

> Therefore, the following table represents the basic Lojban alphabe= t:
>=20
>     '      a      b  =    c      d      e
>     .y'y.  .abu   by.    cy.   = dy.    .ebu
>=20
>     f      g      i  =    j      k      l
>     fy.    gy.    .ibu   jy. &n= bsp;  ky.    ly.
>=20
>     m      n      o  =    p      r      s
>     my.    ny.    .obu   py. &n= bsp;  ry.    sy.
>=20
>     t      u      v  =    x      y      z
>     ty.    .ubu   vy.    xy. &n= bsp;  .ybu   zy.
https://lojban.github.io/cll/17/2/

This is also reflected in jbovlaste. Here is the entry for =E2=80=9Cybu= =E2=80=9D:
http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/ybu

This is an =E2=80=9Cofficialdata=E2=80=9D entry.


However, there is just one problem: The cmavo =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D requi= res pauses
before and after it:
> In addition, there is the cmavo =E2=80=9C.y.=E2=80=9D (remember th= at =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D is not a V),
> which must have pauses before and after it.=20
https://lojban.github.io/cll/4/2/

So, why is it =E2=80=9C.ybu=E2=80=9D and not =E2=80=9C.y.bu=E2=80=9D?

Note the CLL also presents =E2=80=9C.y'y.bu=E2=80=9D, not =E2=80=9C.y'y= bu=E2=80=9D, a few pages later.
(and =E2=80=9Cvy.bu=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cky.bu=E2=80=9D).=20

I have found no rule in the CLL which would permit =E2=80=9C.ybu=E2=80= =9D. AFAIK
the =E2=80=9Cperiod omitting rule=E2=80=9D only applies if spaces are u= sed. So =E2=80=9Cy bu=E2=80=9D
would be fine IMO.

For me this seems to be a pretty stupid oversight.

Could the responsible person or persons please quickly confirm this
erratum? And resolve this conflict in the CLL?

Greetings!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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