Date: Mon, 6 Jul 2015 16:47:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: la sel <sel.trimble@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <fc2538ee-4e86-440c-be29-39a8227dacaf@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] An attempt to explain why "ganai broda gi ko brode" makes sense
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First, the problem:  imperatives aren't intuitively true or false.

Chapter 14 section 13 of the CLL, found here=20
http://lojban.github.io/cll/14/13/,  states "Truth questions may be used in=
=20
bridi connection. This form of sentence is perfectly legitimate, and can be=
=20
interpreted by using the convention that a truth question is true if the=20
answer is =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D and false if the answer is =E2=80=9Cno=E2=
=80=9D. Analogously, an imperative=20
sentence (involving the special pro-sumti =E2=80=9Cko=E2=80=9D, which means=
 =E2=80=9Cyou=E2=80=9D but marks=20
the sentence as a command) is true if the command is obeyed, and false=20
otherwise. A request of Abraham Lincoln=E2=80=99s may be translated thus: g=
anai ti=20
ckafi gi ko bevri loi tcati mi .ije ganai ti tcati gi ko bevri loi ckafi=20
mi".  The problem with this definition of the truth of an imperative is=20
that if the beverage was coffee, and the President was not then given tea,=
=20
the statement was false.  And since we aren't supposed to say false things,=
=20
we must also never issue commands unless we are certain that they will be=
=20
carried out.  Such certainty is rare, and rarer than our desire to use the=
=20
imperative.  So a new take on the imperative is needed, and will be=20
described below.

Consider "Give me that." and some of it's possible meanings: "If you don't=
=20
give me that, I will punish you." and "It would please me if you would give=
=20
me that.".  The first usage tells the listener how to keep their life from=
=20
becoming worse.  This usage is classified as a command.  The second usage=
=20
is classified as a request, and is used when the listener might desire to=
=20
please the speaker.  Both of these uses pertain to the quality-of-life of=
=20
both the listener and the speaker.  Now consider uses of the imperative in=
=20
cooking shows and home improvement shows.  Often "commands" are given that=
=20
would almost only affect the listener's quality-of-life: "Add a tablespoon=
=20
of baking powder" becomes "If you don't add roughly a tablespoon of baking=
=20
powder, your food will not turn out well.".

From the above, we see that "ko broda" can roughly translate to "lo nu mi=
=20
geirbi'o gi'a na to'e geirbi'o cu mukti lo nu do broda" or "lo nu do broda=
=20
cu xamgu do .ija lo nu do na broda cu to'e xamgu do".  These bridi are more=
=20
easily understood in an "if then" construct.

(question: is there a way to use connectives to shorten "mi geirbi'o gi'a=
=20
na to'e geirbi'o"? "ga na to'e gi ? geirbi'o")

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>First, the problem:&nbsp; imperatives aren't intuitiv=
ely true or false.</div><div><br></div><div>Chapter 14 section 13 of the CL=
L, found here <a href=3D"http://lojban.github.io/cll/14/13/">http://lojban.=
github.io/cll/14/13/</a>, &nbsp;states "Truth questions may be used in brid=
i connection. This form of sentence is perfectly legitimate, and can be int=
erpreted by using the convention that a truth question is true if the answe=
r is =E2=80=9Cyes=E2=80=9D and false if the answer is =E2=80=9Cno=E2=80=9D.=
 Analogously, an imperative sentence (involving the special pro-sumti =E2=
=80=9Cko=E2=80=9D, which means =E2=80=9Cyou=E2=80=9D but marks the sentence=
 as a command) is true if the command is obeyed, and false otherwise. A req=
uest of Abraham Lincoln=E2=80=99s may be translated thus: ganai ti ckafi gi=
 ko bevri loi tcati mi .ije ganai ti tcati gi ko bevri loi ckafi mi".&nbsp;=
 The problem with this definition of the truth of an imperative is that if =
the beverage was coffee, and the President was not then given tea, the stat=
ement was false.&nbsp; And since we aren't supposed to say false things, we=
 must also never issue commands unless we are certain that they will be car=
ried out.&nbsp; Such certainty is rare, and rarer than our desire to use th=
e imperative.&nbsp; So a new take on the imperative is needed, and will be =
described below.</div><div><br></div><div>Consider "Give me that." and some=
 of it's possible meanings: "If you don't give me that, I will punish you."=
 and&nbsp;"It would please me if you would give me that.".&nbsp; The first =
usage tells the listener how to keep their life from becoming worse.&nbsp; =
This usage is classified as a command.&nbsp; The second usage is classified=
 as a request, and is used when the listener might desire to please the spe=
aker.&nbsp; Both of these uses pertain to the quality-of-life of both the l=
istener and the speaker.&nbsp; Now consider uses of the imperative in cooki=
ng shows and home improvement shows.&nbsp; Often "commands" are given that =
would almost only affect the listener's quality-of-life: "Add a tablespoon =
of baking powder" becomes "If you don't add roughly a tablespoon of baking =
powder, your food will not turn out well.".</div><div><br></div><div>From t=
he above, we see that "ko broda" can roughly translate to "lo nu mi geirbi'=
o gi'a na to'e geirbi'o cu mukti lo nu do broda" or "lo nu do broda cu xamg=
u do .ija lo nu do na broda cu to'e xamgu do".&nbsp; These bridi are more e=
asily understood in an "if then" construct.</div><div><br></div><div>(quest=
ion: is there a way to use connectives to shorten "mi geirbi'o gi'a na to'e=
 geirbi'o"? "ga na to'e gi ? geirbi'o")</div></div>

<p></p>

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