Received: from mail-ig0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]:33563) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZFahd-0000zL-W9 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:23:29 -0700 Received: by igts8 with SMTP id s8sf2926804igt.0 for ; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=0Zfw5PGNCGoHd1l8hReDQs8iKRQdKOMuK/R08/XrIBg=; b=PiS5500yQTC4G235i7lr2cUOvNWXrQdI8L8zIa9t2z9w91FgWQozev5+Dq7TWrltk0 Lp8wKFgPDqw3GId3CFdTA8joA115Nqz91qmdpSfdQGMfnVwzU5nMa8ZgAFBpIbUGNHU6 bE/KMCmJEjlJzNOubvpu2TA9a6m6tMhafU/jzX5skr5NoFtwZsCDoXGbAf7tiVNz2Ens FIcM7/0gAAqEqU/44dy5EwubuEm9UlUh3DPD6C9gPnXXvbd0wS0W4PXlQG8+OC/RVEJ7 o1kdiZMRpcys8bqvuda8nriO0hlzTh3h7G7aZ27pwSHlvTauRjbZksCcPecZBnEU+nYZ TCmg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=0Zfw5PGNCGoHd1l8hReDQs8iKRQdKOMuK/R08/XrIBg=; b=o01Gcm+1/uNLgnfKC/kx4ihj8K2jiYLl3R8JtDCl2xQnMRxCKAqqAFsD8OUksC9HO8 PL69e2j4+aIS+xcJBPoJv/L/aLWKXCnlW/9UX0n/WDAA3FIashFNHBHJc3IIos77NH3x YmT3Bf63+ScrKyRTPX2KOJcvMRYQWNH4GsYt8Q5KRb2Ww88sIm5Bna5E7HwgqxkoFZFX RK0UJRlPCmgzehDD9lSBBqLRo4ve/UZKPxB4J7tj3/yPv3okdUWTtI7u+D6RsMocqX89 /FxL+2iedb5IRxOTCLqY/2eaoZqTpGYQGTddAi7wgQ25NvbgtfP3Hb68PRtGOzdwrC9F Yvmg== X-Received: by 10.50.36.6 with SMTP id m6mr34806igj.15.1437020595901; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.2.34 with SMTP id 2ls92642igr.1.canary; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.1.66 with SMTP id 2mr36160igk.1.1437020595591; Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:23:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 21:23:14 -0700 (PDT) From: guskant To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: {tu'e...tu'u} in NU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_440_1108530150.1437020594381" X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_440_1108530150.1437020594381 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_441_1992842233.1437020594381" ------=_Part_441_1992842233.1437020594381 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le mercredi 15 juillet 2015 21:29:50 UTC, xorxes a =C3=A9crit : > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:29 AM, guskant > > wrote: > >> >> 3. sentences connected with forethought connective: >> >> {nu ju'e gi broda gi brode gi brodi gi brodo gi brodu} >> (CU [nu {CU <(=C2=B9ju'e gi=C2=B9) broda (=C2=B9[gi brode] [gi brodi] [g= i brodo] [gi=20 >> brodu]=C2=B9) GIhI> VAU} KEI] VAU)=20 >> >> (Forethought connectives of la zantufa-0.2 can connect more than three= =20 >> "statements (not only sentences)", and {gi'i} is used as the elidible=20 >> terminator GIhI, not as GIhA. See=20 >> http://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa_jonma%27o#lo_li.27erla.27i_jonma.27o >> for more info.) >> > > I like this use of "gi" because connected lists are by far more common=20 > than embedded binary connectives. The meanings of "ge ... gi ... gi ..."= =20 > and "ga ... gi ... gi ..." are fairly obvious, but what are the proposed= =20 > generalizations for "go" and "gu"? Is "go" all true or all false? What ar= e=20 > "gu", "se gu", "te gu", etc? > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > La zantufa gives only syntactic structure, and I have not yet suggested the= =20 semantic structure. From any approach, it is reasonable to interpret that= =20 {gu A gi B gi C} has the same truth value as A. As for {se gu}, one of possible interpretations is grouping of binary=20 transitive connective: that is, {segu A gi B gi C} =3D {segu (segu A gi B= =20 gi'i) gi C} =3D {segu A gi (segu B gi C)}, and then the truth value of {seg= u=20 A gi B gi C} is the same as C. However, as you suggested, we may give=20 another interpretation that {se gu} draws the truth value of B, {te gu}=20 draws the truth value of C, and so on. I like the latter interpretation,=20 because it cannot be easily represented by grouping system of binary=20 connectives, and therefore profits from the n-ary forethought connective=20 system. For the same reason, I prefer the interpretation of "all true or all false"= =20 for {go} and "one and only one of them is true" for {gonai} to the=20 interpretation of grouping of binary connectives. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_441_1992842233.1437020594381 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Le mercredi 15 juillet 2015 21:29:50 UTC, xorxes a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0= :

On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 4:29 AM, guskant <gusni...@gmail.com> wrote:

3. sen= tences connected with forethought connective:

{nu = ju'e gi broda gi brode gi brodi gi brodo gi brodu}
(CU [nu {CU <(=C2=B9ju'e gi=C2=B9= ) broda (=C2=B9[gi brode] [gi brodi] [gi brodo] [gi brodu]=C2=B9) GIhI> = VAU} KEI] VAU)=C2=A0

(Forethought connectives of l= a zantufa-0.2 can connect more than three "statements (not only senten= ces)", and {gi'i} is used as the elidible terminator GIhI, not as = GIhA. See=C2=A0






La zantufa gives only syntactic structu= re, and I have not yet suggested the semantic structure. From any approach,= it is reasonable to interpret that {gu A gi B gi C} has the same truth val= ue as A.

As for {se gu}, one of possible interpret= ations is grouping of binary transitive connective: that is, {segu A gi B g= i C} =3D {segu (segu A gi B gi'i) gi C} =3D {segu A gi (segu B gi C)}, = and then the truth value of {segu A gi B gi C} is the same as C. However, a= s you suggested, we may give another interpretation that {se gu} draws the = truth value of B, {te gu} draws the truth value of C, and so on. I like the= latter interpretation, because it cannot be easily represented by grouping= system of binary connectives, and therefore profits from the n-ary foretho= ught connective system.

For the same reason, I pre= fer the interpretation of "all true or all false" for {go} and &q= uot;one and only one of them is true" for {gonai} to the interpretatio= n of grouping of binary connectives.
=C2=A0

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