Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 01:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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 <111fbfc0-49f0-4ff0-9c88-31e0383cd3f9@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: {tu'e...tu'u} in NU
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Le lundi 20 juillet 2015 01:04:03 UTC, Spheniscine (la zipcpi) a =C3=A9crit=
 :
>
> *{tu'e lo mabla cu fasnu .i lo zabna cu fasnu tu'u ca lo nu mi stuvi'e le=
=20
>> sralygu'e}
>
>
> Any solutions for this? I've been told there is a proposed experimental=
=20
> cmavo called {zo'au} that is "postnex" the way that {zo'u} is prenex. I'm=
=20
> not quite sure how that would work though, and if I'm gonna have to use a=
n=20
> experimental selma'o for this, I might as well be changing the grammar of=
=20
> tu'e...tu'u ...=20
>


Your example shows necessity of adding a term string that spans over the=20
statement to the left. I think it is not very difficult to implement=20
grammatically zo'au-clause: just creating a structure like prenex, and make=
=20
it elidible famyma'o of a statement.=20

However, zo'au-clause will produce more complex semantics than the current=
=20
for the following reason:=20
logical items like negation, numbers and bound variables semantically span=
=20
over the following items, and "postnex" should break the logical structure=
=20
of the leading statement when it appears at the end of the statement.=20

It is not good for me, and I don't intend to implement "postnex" to la=20
zantufa for now.

An alternative idea is to use {no'a} with SEI (or experimental _new_ SOI of=
=20
la ilmentufa):
tu'e lo mabla cu fasnu .i lo zabna cu fasnu tu'u sei ca lo nu mi stuvi'e le=
=20
sralygu'e cu no'a=20


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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le lundi 20 juillet 2015 01:04:03 UTC, Spheniscine=
 (la zipcpi) a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;=
"><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border=
-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">*{tu&#39;e lo mabla cu fasnu .i lo zabn=
a cu fasnu tu&#39;u ca lo nu mi stuvi&#39;e le sralygu&#39;e}</blockquote><=
div><br></div><div>Any solutions for this? I&#39;ve been told there is a pr=
oposed experimental cmavo called {zo&#39;au} that is &quot;postnex&quot; th=
e way that {zo&#39;u} is prenex. I&#39;m not quite sure how that would work=
 though, and if I&#39;m gonna have to use an experimental selma&#39;o for t=
his, I might as well be changing the grammar of tu&#39;e...tu&#39;u ...=C2=
=A0</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Your example=
 shows necessity of adding a term string that spans over the statement to t=
he left. I think it is not very difficult to implement grammatically zo&#39=
;au-clause: just creating a structure like prenex, and make it elidible fam=
yma&#39;o of a statement.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>However, zo&#39;au=
-clause will produce more complex semantics than the current for the follow=
ing reason:=C2=A0</div><div>logical items like negation, numbers and bound =
variables semantically span over the following items, and &quot;postnex&quo=
t; should break the logical structure of the leading statement when it appe=
ars at the end of the statement.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>It is not g=
ood for me, and I don&#39;t intend to implement &quot;postnex&quot; to la z=
antufa for now.</div><div><br></div><div>An alternative idea is to use {no&=
#39;a} with SEI (or experimental _new_ SOI of la ilmentufa):</div><div>tu&#=
39;e lo mabla cu fasnu .i lo zabna cu fasnu tu&#39;u sei ca lo nu mi stuvi&=
#39;e le sralygu&#39;e cu no&#39;a=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div><br><=
/div></div>

<p></p>

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