Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:09:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <1c2a3b64-07b1-4023-a740-362deb17da34@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] xoi and new soi as bridi relative clause
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The current highest score of {xoi} (or {fi'oi}) 

http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/xoi

and new {soi} 

http://mw.lojban.org/papri/new_soi

as bridi relative clause are defined with assertion about their (semantic) 
scope.

xoi:
Right-scoping adverbial clause: encloses a bridi and turns it into an 
adverbial term; the antecedent (ke'a) of the enclosed bridi stands for the 
outer bridi {lo su'u no'a ku} (the bridi in which this xoi term appears), 
including all the other adverbial terms (tags...) within this bridi located 
on the right of this xoi term (rightward scope).

soi:
soi terms always have top-scope, meaning they scope over any quantifiers, 
negations or tenses that precede them. When multiple soi are used in the 
same bridi, they are understood to have equal scope.

{xoi} and new {soi} are currently in selma'o SOI of la ilmentufa, and 
SOI_clause is treated as tag_term:

http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.js.peg

tag_term = expr:((!gek tag free* (sumti / KU_elidible free*) / NA_clause 
free* KU_clause free* / !gek !ek !joik_jek !gihek NA_clause free* 
 KU_elidible free* / SOI_clause free* subsentence SEhU_elidible free*) 
(joik_jek tag_term)*) {return _node("tag_term", expr);}

Generally, Lojban terms have scope that spans over all the following terms 
in a sentence. The scope of terms is modified by a prenex of a statement. 
If {xoi}-clause and new {soi}-clause are defined as having scope, it should 
not be a term. If they are defined as terms, {xoi} has harmony with scope 
of other terms, but {soi} becomes an exception of scope of terms, otherwise 
loses its power as left-scope. 

Which do you prefer:

1. keep the current situiation, and regard {soi} as an exception of scope 
of terms;
2. keep the current situiation, and let {soi} loose the power of left-scope 
({soi} becomes the same as {xoi});
3. create a new grammatical property for {soi}, and keep {xoi} as it is;
4. allow {soi}-clause become a "free", that has the same property as 
{sei}-clause (easier than 3.);
5. other.

re'i

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The current highest score of {xoi} (or {fi&#39;oi})=
=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/xoi</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>and new {soi}=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>http://=
mw.lojban.org/papri/new_soi</div><div><br></div><div>as bridi relative clau=
se are defined with assertion about their (semantic) scope.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>xoi:</div><div>Right-scoping adverbial clause: encloses a bridi a=
nd turns it into an adverbial term; the antecedent (ke&#39;a) of the enclos=
ed bridi stands for the outer bridi {lo su&#39;u no&#39;a ku} (the bridi in=
 which this xoi term appears), including all the other adverbial terms (tag=
s...) within this bridi located on the right of this xoi term (rightward sc=
ope).</div><div><br></div><div>soi:</div><div>soi terms always have top-sco=
pe, meaning they scope over any quantifiers, negations or tenses that prece=
de them. When multiple soi are used in the same bridi, they are understood =
to have equal scope.</div><div><br></div><div>{xoi} and new {soi} are curre=
ntly in selma&#39;o SOI of la ilmentufa, and SOI_clause is treated as tag_t=
erm:</div><div><br></div><div>http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/cam=
xes-exp.js.peg</div><div><br></div><div>tag_term =3D expr:((!gek tag free* =
(sumti / KU_elidible free*) / NA_clause free* KU_clause free* / !gek !ek !j=
oik_jek !gihek NA_clause free* =C2=A0KU_elidible free* / SOI_clause free* s=
ubsentence SEhU_elidible free*) (joik_jek tag_term)*) {return _node(&quot;t=
ag_term&quot;, expr);}</div><div><br></div><div>Generally, Lojban terms hav=
e scope that spans over all the following terms in a sentence. The scope of=
 terms is modified by a prenex of a statement. If {xoi}-clause and new {soi=
}-clause are defined as having scope, it should not be a term. If they are =
defined as terms, {xoi} has harmony with scope of other terms, but {soi} be=
comes an exception of scope of terms, otherwise loses its power as left-sco=
pe.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Which do you prefer:</div><div><br></div=
><div>1. keep the current situiation, and regard {soi} as an exception of s=
cope of terms;</div><div>2. keep the current situiation, and let {soi} loos=
e the power of left-scope ({soi} becomes the same as {xoi});</div><div>3. c=
reate a new grammatical property for {soi}, and keep {xoi} as it is;</div><=
div>4. allow {soi}-clause become a &quot;free&quot;, that has the same prop=
erty as {sei}-clause (easier than 3.);</div><div>5. other.</div><div><br></=
div><div>re&#39;i</div><div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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