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[212.227.15.18]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cj6si397083wib.1.2015.07.20.07.34.49 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 20 Jul 2015 07:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.18 as permitted sender) client-ip=212.227.15.18; Received: from [192.168.2.118] ([84.137.85.108]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx002) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MHX4u-1ZDtpc3nI4-003OIE for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:34:48 +0200 Subject: Re: [lojban] xoi and new soi as bridi relative clause To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <1c2a3b64-07b1-4023-a740-362deb17da34@googlegroups.com> From: selpa'i Message-ID: <55AD070D.5020903@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 16:34:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1c2a3b64-07b1-4023-a740-362deb17da34@googlegroups.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:ROCe11Or6mzk8dHfLyK5Y6XgRyndEDaUk5532ymruQwIY9EA/pT LSPdf4b5vnBSDodT8r4npXLKzLADp8LOJojHbpOTOQLiqJ9zjHmt9cJQyLJsJyryX0MVmPM 3Aev6vrL21dU4twQzvJpV0v4f3dc+d1RaYBvJsrnGecvr2C6DryME2hcbz0UYxgEvBLzzLu OiqDYLXnjkfd8bkjJw2mw== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:ue3B0JtQ9Es=:3IbNw2wvV2NyKJAoyU8WGx MBRHUZ13grr308O1UAUKrD6LTWaDlotDDWYwQF5400W5pGFBNFHgyracl/9tWeCUARblhAF7I hwOlqI0ZziJtpXB9IauUVBrN6Fw7GUm+XHHRXtIoOfeALCUorF/iIsbwHFpMncJI1+OuO3HAk /ydMKFzie7WlQamdZ4I02ilHFKll3lDQ3N4j1V5iJw1vaAKfX1CCR1Buf2VU4Vr8U1nk+SZcC tLmTycgStjsewma08RVYUKniKvx9mDZ1IGXQV3PCZF0ZFPn6D3R0JRjdSVlgb/xktfuOkoCcG pgmH5DEbkWlhU5NCahefP0L2eRsnP/z3x+1m0Cr5vqMQNLdZKLo7/PHv5iA4XV5sTUBLV/Vp/ RK5Erx0KXTZjbU9VNROnyttEXIr+gSRSJuUQX7fhQGSqJwmH3Uz2ZxBiP90ZAnkUWFDPBgvHh ZYRqIgftzaVWbV/zhGCjX3piA2F006j/1TRcYIsuwffzsCga1ajh0h3XihEdKJol9HqCWvC/8 CpcF8HvzbJIy3YXJpjTbRUFmEFiHnAOqZ7YzWoMiGZC9dF/zN77P9Nv9EAta+hMV2Af8YOvcI GxIEJ5GhEwLNXOd88SZHOz51zx6QpO8D1bdp9X+oO2mGLDtsD6or6aLnpe4sYxIg6kghcTVlI FElkMePn/QQCox4xslNlQKscb8LBTwhukYMheDA/N8K4noY5pfDPciDXpqCn2qDNBtDs= X-Original-Sender: seladwa@gmx.de X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of seladwa@gmx.de designates 212.227.15.18 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=seladwa@gmx.de Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - la .guskant. cu cusku di'e > Which do you prefer: > > 1. keep the current situiation, and regard {soi} as an exception of > scope of terms; > 2. keep the current situiation, and let {soi} loose the power of > left-scope ({soi} becomes the same as {xoi}); > 3. create a new grammatical property for {soi}, and keep {xoi} as it is; > 4. allow {soi}-clause become a "free", that has the same property as > {sei}-clause (easier than 3.); > 5. other. New-{soi} originally started out as a free modifier (before xoi became popular), but then I thought that being a term is more useful because it allows us to use it in termsets: (A) mi ge lo xamsi soi cafne gi lo cmana soi to'e cafne cu klama "I often go to the ocean, but rarely to the mountain." Such a construction used to be impossible before. However, now that {xoi} exists, it could easily replace {soi} in that sentence, and {soi} *could* go back to being a free modifier (option 4). I think this would depend on how much support {xoi} has (it has experimental cmavo form which might bother some people?). If {xoi} is going to become part of standard Lojban then I think option 4 works (sentence (A) needs to remain expressable somehow). I'd like to hear from other users of both {soi} and {xoi}. mi'e la selpa'i mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. 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