Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:47:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Spheniscine (la zipcpi)" <spheniscine@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <b41e5f2e-45ef-410e-bf02-8eb68dfb38ee@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <f9604ba6-a042-4c93-8927-71f1e0094701@googlegroups.com>
References: <a9475bfd-ac16-40ce-bb60-7b2a057a681d@googlegroups.com>
 <111fbfc0-49f0-4ff0-9c88-31e0383cd3f9@googlegroups.com>
 <f9604ba6-a042-4c93-8927-71f1e0094701@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: {tu'e...tu'u} in NU
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
	boundary="----=_Part_801_1623934320.1437407233011"
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -2.0
X-Spam_score_int: -19
X-Spam_bar: --

------=_Part_801_1623934320.1437407233011
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_802_1840172264.1437407233011"

------=_Part_802_1840172264.1437407233011
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8


>
>
> Your example shows necessity of adding a term string that spans over the 
> statement to the left. I think it is not very difficult to implement 
> grammatically zo'au-clause: just creating a structure like prenex, and make 
> it elidible famyma'o of a statement. 
>
> However, zo'au-clause will produce more complex semantics than the current 
> for the following reason: 
> logical items like negation, numbers and bound variables semantically span 
> over the following items, and "postnex" should break the logical structure 
> of the leading statement when it appears at the end of the statement. 
>
> It is not good for me, and I don't intend to implement "postnex" to la 
> zantufa for now.
>
> An alternative idea is to use {no'a} with SEI (or experimental _new_ SOI 
> of la ilmentufa):
> tu'e lo mabla cu fasnu .i lo zabna cu fasnu tu'u sei ca lo nu mi stuvi'e 
> le sralygu'e cu no'a 
>
>
{zo'u} is used for more than logical prenexes though; it's also used as a 
"topic marker" with an unspecified logical connection. e.g. {le lojbo cecmu 
zo'u (lo broda cu brode)}. Thus {zo'au} might be useful for an afterthought 
topic marker, sort of like hashtags.

How a logical postnex should scope is a problem though, but I don't feel 
qualified to deal with that.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------=_Part_802_1840172264.1437407233011
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bor=
der-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></di=
v><div>Your example shows necessity of adding a term string that spans over=
 the statement to the left. I think it is not very difficult to implement g=
rammatically zo&#39;au-clause: just creating a structure like prenex, and m=
ake it elidible famyma&#39;o of a statement.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div=
>However, zo&#39;au-clause will produce more complex semantics than the cur=
rent for the following reason:=C2=A0</div><div>logical items like negation,=
 numbers and bound variables semantically span over the following items, an=
d &quot;postnex&quot; should break the logical structure of the leading sta=
tement when it appears at the end of the statement.=C2=A0</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>It is not good for me, and I don&#39;t intend to implement &quot;po=
stnex&quot; to la zantufa for now.</div><div><br></div><div>An alternative =
idea is to use {no&#39;a} with SEI (or experimental _new_ SOI of la ilmentu=
fa):</div><div>tu&#39;e lo mabla cu fasnu .i lo zabna cu fasnu tu&#39;u sei=
 ca lo nu mi stuvi&#39;e le sralygu&#39;e cu no&#39;a=C2=A0<br></div><div><=
br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>{zo&#39;u} is used for more=
 than logical prenexes though; it&#39;s also used as a &quot;topic marker&q=
uot; with an unspecified logical connection. e.g. {le lojbo cecmu zo&#39;u =
(lo broda cu brode)}. Thus {zo&#39;au} might be useful for an afterthought =
topic marker, sort of like hashtags.</div><div><br></div><div>How a logical=
 postnex should scope is a problem though, but I don&#39;t feel qualified t=
o deal with that.</div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

------=_Part_802_1840172264.1437407233011--
------=_Part_801_1623934320.1437407233011--