Received: from mail-qg0-f61.google.com ([209.85.192.61]:33771) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZHZDR-0002S1-OT for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:12:31 -0700 Received: by qgy5 with SMTP id 5sf71902445qgy.0 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:12:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=9+Fjh7mdFUSBtzYoNBzkVMXNt4Tr1jlgNbFMBwKJQvo=; b=np5erwZ3YDoTlBML+3vCraNaZ0l9EaHk8G0hCRwTOdY2wKmT101b2zYM6iwquO70an 9oZkdsDaPCEiquRwD9wvjoZKq/KE9thB69ooorZ7Ln5IRDSq2/sB8wTcnvZQUGEXBLFk 46kVbSt7hXFYN9yedv9K4ZV4YNmP5v5BiIhOrNxBV+thetN6j9WBiXo2VbzU88fGFAHF dlDO7yZtldCQ6jwq25RDuL9QKVlu9bhb+4dZmomUdH2JBD9uqV/DF7OcLsyVFmUlviZB Sm5rjVyYeja/PHCUwx52D0Owm+rOkcgBlzTpD/Ra+Oh5eKbPKv1k6yi5JhDJr9n5UCXe +XTg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=9+Fjh7mdFUSBtzYoNBzkVMXNt4Tr1jlgNbFMBwKJQvo=; b=ug3yilPIHSkSEelU7d4bzxLvoKtr5mTEWMfk2YifrjuKOIKZOKGkauWYsnlrSwKrAt GvsjON/s+2cwamW0DXXIrt4beOZYfD+rJdUqnA7qgQlGHg4oqYvSCje+PkOjNoLG/QM5 5YagBEp4MgzrMhI+SICL6k5QPtWR7Tjbjav3DKAHEJEJN+r+8tfCnCNelIYaKVWxWyix 9pW1RMKnkk/w6K0VQ3KyNJMmncVbSg/NQHVPkvCHSYBj5Dg9ve/oZIenaIFt+ek/r5xN VzBabswNPXNb3lzh+hq7+s9bVHx31wH5hqD3TpZ0/PiC0ETcATbQWebYXtwMsE3RtqQp 8QPQ== X-Received: by 10.50.17.2 with SMTP id k2mr298049igd.11.1437491535745; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:12:15 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.107.5.83 with SMTP id 80ls2472321iof.92.gmail; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:12:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.142.39 with SMTP id rt7mr297228igb.17.1437491535464; Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:12:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 08:12:14 -0700 (PDT) From: guskant To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <1c2a3b64-07b1-4023-a740-362deb17da34@googlegroups.com> <55AD070D.5020903@gmx.de> <55AE1142.5090807@gmx.de> <8bab9435-5f94-4742-b74a-8cceac2c8a60@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] xoi and new soi as bridi relative clause MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_6371_1601503549.1437491534337" X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_6371_1601503549.1437491534337 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6372_574489355.1437491534337" ------=_Part_6372_574489355.1437491534337 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le mardi 21 juillet 2015 14:28:18 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : > > > 2015-07-21 17:18 GMT+03:00 guskant >: > >> It's not simplicity of grammar but similarity of form of description=20 >> sumti and inserted bridi. If {sei}-clause could enclose a sentence, the= =20 >> grammar would be 23 bytes smaller. If we add {soi}-clause to "free", the= =20 >> structure and the usage will be very similar to {sei}-clause. If we had = the=20 >> structure of "SOI sentence SEhU" from the beginning of Lojban, I would h= ave=20 >> never used "SEI terms selbri SEhU".=20 >> > > Similarly, you can eliminate LE and move it to LOhOI saving even more=20 > rules. > Thank you for the advice. It seems apparently a nice idea, but I see more= =20 importance in LE-clause than SEI-clause, so I would rather keep it: A=20 LE-clause automatically picks up the first argument from predication, while= =20 LOhOI can change the argument to pick up by {ke'a} afterwords. They have=20 more different aspect compared with the similarity between SEI and new SOI. By the way, I have no intention to force any change to ilmentufa or camxes,= =20 so don't be so much worry. You can continue being illogical and=20 inconsistent as you like.=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_6372_574489355.1437491534337 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Le mardi 21 juillet 2015 14:28:18 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:=

2015-07-21 17:18 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni...@gmail.com>:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
It's not simplicity of grammar but s= imilarity of form of description sumti and inserted bridi. If {sei}-clause = could enclose a sentence, the grammar would be 23 bytes smaller. If we add = {soi}-clause to "free", the structure and the usage will be very = similar to {sei}-clause. If we had the structure of "SOI sentence SEhU= " from the beginning of Lojban, I would have never used "SEI term= s selbri SEhU".=C2=A0
=
Similarly, you can eliminate LE and move it to LOhOI saving even more r= ules.


Thank you = for the advice. It seems apparently a nice idea, but I see more importance = in LE-clause than SEI-clause, so I would rather keep it: A LE-clause automa= tically picks up the first argument from predication, while LOhOI can chang= e the argument to pick up by {ke'a} afterwords. They have more differen= t aspect compared with the similarity between SEI and new SOI.
By the way, I have no intention to force any change to ilmentu= fa or camxes, so don't be so much worry. You can continue being illogic= al and inconsistent as you like.=C2=A0

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