Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:25:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ben Lubar <ben.lubar@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <2b7db954-e6ee-4816-9e3e-20860508b15f@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] numeric bases
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This discussion came up in IRC, starting about the pronunciation of the=20
lojban definition of y'y.bu <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/y'y.bu>, {lu=
=20
y'y.bu li'u bu'ivla zoi ly.h.ly.}, specifically the {zoi ly.h.ly.} part.=20
Because there is no word "h" in any language I know of, that definition=20
would be impossible for a native lojban speaker to pronounce without=20
knowing another language.

An alternative definition could be made using {se'e li panovo} or {se'e li=
=20
xabi}, but the former could refer to "=C4=84" and the latter to "D". Let's =
try=20
to solve that problem by adding {ju'u}.

Now we have {se'e li panovo ju'u pano} for base ten and {se'e li xabi ju'u=
=20
paxa} for base sixteen.

However, {li pano ju'u paxa} (10 in base sixteen) is the same as {li paxa}=
=20
(16), and {ju'u} is an operator and can therefore be chained.

Now we have {se'e li xabi ju'u pano ju'u paxa} for base sixteen.

And because we have no default base, we can make one or both of the {ju'u=
=20
PA*} implicit, and any {ju'u} with a second argument that is more than one=
=20
digit long is ambiguous.

I can say {se'e li xabi ju'u vei vai su'i pa ve'o} to be unambiguous, but=
=20
that's quite a lot longer than the English equivalent of "U+0068".

There are two ways this could be solved that I can think of:

   - make {se'e} have a default base (hexadecimal?)
   - make {ju'u} have a default base (decimal?)

--=20
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<div dir=3D"ltr">This discussion came up in IRC, starting about the pronunc=
iation of the lojban definition of=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.=
org/dict/y&#39;y.bu">y&#39;y.bu</a>, {lu y&#39;y.bu li&#39;u bu&#39;ivla zo=
i ly.h.ly.}, specifically the {zoi ly.h.ly.}=C2=A0part. Because there is no=
 word &quot;h&quot; in any language I know of, that definition would be imp=
ossible for a native lojban speaker to pronounce without knowing another la=
nguage.<div><br></div><div>An alternative definition could be made using {s=
e&#39;e li panovo} or {se&#39;e li xabi}, but the former could refer to &qu=
ot;=C4=84&quot; and the latter to &quot;D&quot;. Let&#39;s try to solve tha=
t problem by adding {ju&#39;u}.<br><br>Now we have {se&#39;e li panovo ju&#=
39;u pano} for base ten and {se&#39;e li xabi ju&#39;u paxa} for base sixte=
en.</div><div><br></div><div>However, {li pano ju&#39;u paxa} (10 in base s=
ixteen) is the same as {li paxa} (16), and {ju&#39;u} is an operator and ca=
n therefore be chained.</div><br>Now we have {se&#39;e li xabi ju&#39;u pan=
o ju&#39;u paxa} for base sixteen.<div><br></div><div>And because we have n=
o default base, we can make one or both of the {ju&#39;u PA*} implicit, and=
 any {ju&#39;u} with a second argument that is more than one digit long is =
ambiguous.</div><div><br></div><div>I can say {se&#39;e li xabi ju&#39;u ve=
i vai su&#39;i pa ve&#39;o} to be unambiguous, but that&#39;s quite a lot l=
onger than the English equivalent of &quot;U+0068&quot;.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>There are two ways this could be solved that I can think of:</div><d=
iv><ul><li><span style=3D"line-height: normal;">make {se&#39;e} have a defa=
ult base (hexadecimal?)</span></li><li><span style=3D"line-height: normal;"=
>make {ju&#39;u} have a default base (decimal?)</span></li></ul></div></div=
>

<p></p>

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