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From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 08:28:21 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKOEKkR2Fk3C9Zc0iVStMS2+=haDCzAA9dwoBMJbvznjpFFaDw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] numeric bases
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  Don't forget that ju'u dau is always available to unambiguously state a
decimal base.  So you can terminate it...

    --gejyspa


On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Ben Lubar <ben.lubar@gmail.com> wrote:

> This discussion came up in IRC, starting about the pronunciation of the
> lojban definition of y'y.bu <http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/y'y.bu>,
> {lu y'y.bu li'u bu'ivla zoi ly.h.ly.}, specifically the {zoi ly.h.ly.} pa=
rt.
> Because there is no word "h" in any language I know of, that definition
> would be impossible for a native lojban speaker to pronounce without
> knowing another language.
>
> An alternative definition could be made using {se'e li panovo} or {se'e l=
i
> xabi}, but the former could refer to "=C4=84" and the latter to "D". Let'=
s try
> to solve that problem by adding {ju'u}.
>
> Now we have {se'e li panovo ju'u pano} for base ten and {se'e li xabi ju'=
u
> paxa} for base sixteen.
>
> However, {li pano ju'u paxa} (10 in base sixteen) is the same as {li paxa=
}
> (16), and {ju'u} is an operator and can therefore be chained.
>
> Now we have {se'e li xabi ju'u pano ju'u paxa} for base sixteen.
>
> And because we have no default base, we can make one or both of the {ju'u
> PA*} implicit, and any {ju'u} with a second argument that is more than on=
e
> digit long is ambiguous.
>
> I can say {se'e li xabi ju'u vei vai su'i pa ve'o} to be unambiguous, but
> that's quite a lot longer than the English equivalent of "U+0068".
>
> There are two ways this could be solved that I can think of:
>
>    - make {se'e} have a default base (hexadecimal?)
>    - make {ju'u} have a default base (decimal?)
>
> --
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<div dir=3D"ltr">=C2=A0 Don&#39;t forget that ju&#39;u dau is always availa=
ble to unambiguously state a decimal base.=C2=A0 So you can terminate it...=
<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa</div><div><br></div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 a=
t 6:25 PM, Ben Lubar <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ben.lubar@gmai=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">ben.lubar@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">This discussion came up in IRC, =
starting about the pronunciation of the lojban definition of=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/y&#39;y.bu" target=3D"_blank">y&#39;y.=
bu</a>, {lu y&#39;y.bu li&#39;u bu&#39;ivla zoi ly.h.ly.}, specifically the=
 {zoi <a href=3D"http://ly.h.ly" target=3D"_blank">ly.h.ly</a>.}=C2=A0part.=
 Because there is no word &quot;h&quot; in any language I know of, that def=
inition would be impossible for a native lojban speaker to pronounce withou=
t knowing another language.<div><br></div><div>An alternative definition co=
uld be made using {se&#39;e li panovo} or {se&#39;e li xabi}, but the forme=
r could refer to &quot;=C4=84&quot; and the latter to &quot;D&quot;. Let=
9;s try to solve that problem by adding {ju&#39;u}.<br><br>Now we have {se&=
#39;e li panovo ju&#39;u pano} for base ten and {se&#39;e li xabi ju&#39;u =
paxa} for base sixteen.</div><div><br></div><div>However, {li pano ju&#39;u=
 paxa} (10 in base sixteen) is the same as {li paxa} (16), and {ju&#39;u} i=
s an operator and can therefore be chained.</div><br>Now we have {se&#39;e =
li xabi ju&#39;u pano ju&#39;u paxa} for base sixteen.<div><br></div><div>A=
nd because we have no default base, we can make one or both of the {ju&#39;=
u PA*} implicit, and any {ju&#39;u} with a second argument that is more tha=
n one digit long is ambiguous.</div><div><br></div><div>I can say {se&#39;e=
 li xabi ju&#39;u vei vai su&#39;i pa ve&#39;o} to be unambiguous, but that=
&#39;s quite a lot longer than the English equivalent of &quot;U+0068&quot;=
.</div><div><br></div><div>There are two ways this could be solved that I c=
an think of:</div><div><ul><li><span style=3D"line-height:normal">make {se&=
#39;e} have a default base (hexadecimal?)</span></li><li><span style=3D"lin=
e-height:normal">make {ju&#39;u} have a default base (decimal?)</span></li>=
</ul></div></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">

<p></p>

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</font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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