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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 21:39:23 +0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] seca'o
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2015-08-31 21:10 GMT+03:00 Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:

> On Monday, August 31, 2015 19:13:21 Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> > The previous constucts were proposed expansions of TAhE.
> >
> > I don't think I can immediately understand which features tense markers
> > must possess to be called tenses (not being able to take SE, not being
> able
> > to work as sumtcita?) but
> >
> > what I can say that your question isn't relevant to the notion of "tens=
e
> > marker" in general but to Lojbanic understanding of it. So any new briv=
la
> > (hopefully not cimjvo invading jvajvo space) would do.
>
> Tense is a grammatical thing. Most languages, including Lojban, have tens=
e.
> English has a synthetic past tense marked by "-ed" in weak verbs and vowe=
l
> changes in strong verbs, and several analytic tenses, but no separate ten=
se
> markers. Chickasaw has a tense marker "tok". Tok Pisin has tense markers
> "bin"
> and "bai" and auxiliary verbs "stap" and "pinis". (Wiktionary calls them
> all
> tense markers, but the last two are verbs in their own right.) What
> exactly is
> a tense marker has to be figured out for each language, and a particular
> word
> may change from an auxiliary to a tense marker.
>

Exactly, that's why a word is possible but it would be polysemous.


>
> In Lojban, the syntactic difference is that tense markers cannot be
> converted
> with SE.


Neither {fi'o ... fe'u} constructs. Why can't they be tenses?

Both tense markers (many selma'o) and proper prepositions (BAI) can
> be used as prepositions.
>
> The word I'm looking for is one for the general notion of grammatical
> tense,
> including Lojban spatial tenses.
>

That would  by semantics include {ka'a}, won't it? or you want to allow
spatial markers but make a syntactic exclusion for Lojban?


> Pierre
> --
> La sal en el mar es m=C3=A1s que en la sangre.
> Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.
>
> --
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2015-08-31 21:10 GMT+03:00 Pierre Abbat <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:phma@bezitopo.org" target=3D"_blank">phma@bezitopo.org</a>&gt;</=
span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On Monday, August=
 31, 2015 19:13:21 Gleki Arxokuna wrote:<br>
&gt; The previous constucts were proposed expansions of TAhE.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t think I can immediately understand which features tense ma=
rkers<br>
&gt; must possess to be called tenses (not being able to take SE, not being=
 able<br>
&gt; to work as sumtcita?) but<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; what I can say that your question isn&#39;t relevant to the notion of =
&quot;tense<br>
&gt; marker&quot; in general but to Lojbanic understanding of it. So any ne=
w brivla<br>
&gt; (hopefully not cimjvo invading jvajvo space) would do.<br>
<br>
</span>Tense is a grammatical thing. Most languages, including Lojban, have=
 tense.<br>
English has a synthetic past tense marked by &quot;-ed&quot; in weak verbs =
and vowel<br>
changes in strong verbs, and several analytic tenses, but no separate tense=
<br>
markers. Chickasaw has a tense marker &quot;tok&quot;. Tok Pisin has tense =
markers &quot;bin&quot;<br>
and &quot;bai&quot; and auxiliary verbs &quot;stap&quot; and &quot;pinis&qu=
ot;. (Wiktionary calls them all<br>
tense markers, but the last two are verbs in their own right.) What exactly=
 is<br>
a tense marker has to be figured out for each language, and a particular wo=
rd<br>
may change from an auxiliary to a tense marker.<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>Exactly, that&#39;s why a word is possible but it would be polysem=
ous.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
In Lojban, the syntactic difference is that tense markers cannot be convert=
ed<br>
with SE.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Neither {fi&#39;o ... fe&#39;u} co=
nstructs. Why can&#39;t they be tenses?</div><div><br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex"> Both tense markers (many selma&#39;o) and proper prepositi=
ons (BAI) can<br>
be used as prepositions.<br>
<br>
The word I&#39;m looking for is one for the general notion of grammatical t=
ense,<br>
including Lojban spatial tenses.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That w=
ould =C2=A0by semantics include {ka&#39;a}, won&#39;t it? or you want to al=
low spatial markers but make a syntactic exclusion for Lojban?</div><div><b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
Pierre<br>
--<br>
La sal en el mar es m=C3=A1s que en la sangre.<br>
Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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r>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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