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[173.13.139.236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fk4si2590078pbc.2.2015.08.31.23.07.37 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 31 Aug 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.236; Received: from rlpowell by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZWejI-0001fV-HQ for lojban@googlegroups.com; Mon, 31 Aug 2015 23:07:36 -0700 Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 23:07:36 -0700 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL help: jbovlaste words, round 2 Message-ID: <20150901060736.GY21584@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20150818044615.GF22026@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20150818044615.GF22026@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_bar: -- Pretty please. On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 09:46:19PM -0700, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > So here's the list again, but this time they should mostly be actual > words we care about. >=20 > Please enter these all into jbovlaste! It would really help! >=20 > I've included context so that people can evaluate which words should > *not* go in the golssary. >=20 > For lujvo synonyms, I'm just having the book ignore everything but > whatever form people put into jbovlaste, so just let me know which > ones I should ignore. >=20 > Ideally in a future version we'd have "see also blah" or whatever, > but I can't be bothered for this run; someone else is welcome to set > that up. >=20 > *********************************************************************** b= isycla > chapters/04.xml- da'amei must be a compound cma= vo because it lacks a consonant pair; > chapters/04.xml- lojban. must be a name because it lack= s a final vowel. > chapters/04.xml- consonant= pairsletter y within yletterbetween letters of consonant pair consonant pairsin brivla brivla<= secondary>consonant pairs in Thus, > chapters/04.xml: bisycla has the consonant pair > chapters/04.xml- sc in the first five non- > chapters/04.xml- y letters even though the > chapters/04.xml- sc actually appears in the f= orm of > *********************************************************************** b= lolei > chapters/04.xml- lo'ikle > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- lotlei > chapters/04.xml: blolei > chapters/04.xml- lo'irlei > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- Only > -- > chapters/04.xml- 5867 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: blolei > chapters/04.xml- 5847 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml-Logical Language Gro= upexample > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- So the form > chapters/04.xml: blolei is preferred, but only by a tin= y margin over > chapters/04.xml- blokle; "lotlei" and "lotkle" are only= slightly worse; > chapters/04.xml- lo'ikle suffers because of its apostro= phe, and > chapters/04.xml- lo'irlei because of having both apostr= ophe and hyphen. > *********************************************************************** c= alkyguzme > chapters/05.xml- piece of cloth > chapters/05.xml- > chapters/05.xml- > chapters/05.xml: djacu calkyguzme > chapters/05.xml- water calabash > chapters/05.xml- Ewe > chapters/05.xml- calabash of water > -- > chapters/05.xml- > chapters/05.xml- > chapters/05.xml- > chapters/05.xml: calkyguzme > chapters/05.xml- shell-fruit, calabash > chapters/05.xml- > chapters/05.xml- > *********************************************************************** c= inctu > chapters/04.xml- teacher of male sexuality. Here are th= e possible forms of the lujvo, both before and after hyphenation: > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- nak-kem-cin-ctu > chapters/04.xml: nakykemcinctu > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- nak-kem-cin-ctuca > chapters/04.xml: nakykemcinctuca > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- nak-kem-cins-ctu > chapters/04.xml- nakykemcinsyctu > -- > chapters/04.xml- nakykemcinsyctuca > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- nakn-kem-cin-ctu > chapters/04.xml: naknykemcinctu > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- nakn-kem-cin-ctuca > chapters/04.xml: naknykemcinctuca > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- nakn-kem-cins-ctu > chapters/04.xml- naknykemcinsyctu > -- > chapters/04.xml- naknykemcinsyctuca > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- gismualgorithm for Of these forms, > chapters/04.xml: nakykemcinctu is the shortest and is p= referred by the scoring algorithm. On the whole, however, it might be bette= r to just make a lujvo for > chapters/04.xml- cinse ctuca (which would be > chapters/04.xml: cinctu) since the sex of the teacher i= s rarely important. If there was a reason to specify > chapters/04.xml- male, then the simpler tanru > chapters/04.xml: nakni cinctu ( > chapters/04.xml- male sexual-teacher) would be appropri= ate. This tanru is actually shorter than the four-part lujvo, since the > chapters/04.xml- ke required for grouping need not be e= xpressed. > chapters/04.xml- > *********************************************************************** c= macrnintegrale > chapters/04.xml- cmacrntegrale, if the > chapters/04.xml- i of > chapters/04.xml- integrale is removed, or something lik= e > chapters/04.xml: cmacrnintegrale, if a new consonant is= added to the beginning; > chapters/04.xml- cmac- is the rafsi for > chapters/04.xml- cmaci ( > chapters/04.xml- mathematics). The architectural sense = of > *********************************************************************** c= macrntegrale > chapters/04.xml-integralarchitectural conceptexample integral= mathematical conceptexample > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml-The prefix method would render the mathematical concept a= s > chapters/04.xml: cmacrntegrale, if the > chapters/04.xml- i of > chapters/04.xml- integrale is removed, or something lik= e > chapters/04.xml- cmacrnintegrale, if a new consonant is= added to the beginning; > *********************************************************************** d= jinrnintegrale > chapters/04.xml- mathematics). The architectural sense = of > chapters/04.xml- integral might be conveyed with > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: djinrnintegrale or > chapters/04.xml- tarmrnintegrale, where > chapters/04.xml- dinju and > chapters/04.xml- tarmi mean > *********************************************************************** d= onta'a > chapters/07.xml-you-talkexample > chapters/07.xml- > chapters/07.xml- pro-sumti rafsieffect of on place structure of lujvo lujvopro-su= mti rafsi effect on place structure of Thus > chapters/07.xml: donta'a, meaning > chapters/07.xml- you-talk, would be interpreted as > chapters/07.xml- tavla be do, and would have th= e place structure > chapters/07.xml- > *********************************************************************** f= etsygau > chapters/12.xml- galfi (meaning > chapters/12.xml- modify) may be more appropriate for > chapters/12.xml- causes to become a liquid. On the othe= r hand, > chapters/12.xml: fetsygau is potentially confusing, bec= ause it could mean > chapters/12.xml- agent in the event of something becoming femal= e (the implicit-abstraction interpretation) or simply > chapters/12.xml- female agent (the parallel interpretat= ion), so using implicit-abstraction lujvo is always accompanied with some r= isk of being misunderstood. > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** g= e'urzdani > chapters/04.xml- ge'u-zdani, however, r= equires an > chapters/04.xml- r-hyphen; otherwise, the > chapters/04.xml- ge'u- part would fall off as a cmavo. = So this form of the lujvo is > chapters/04.xml: ge'urzdani. > chapters/04.xml- The last two forms require > chapters/04.xml- y-hyphens, as all 4-letter rafsi do, and so are > chapters/04.xml- > *********************************************************************** g= e'uzda > chapters/04.xml- gerzdani. > chapters/04.xml- The third form, > chapters/04.xml- ge'u-zda, needs no hyph= en, because even though the first rafsi is CVV, the second one is CCV, so t= here is a consonant cluster in the first five letters. So > chapters/04.xml: ge'uzda is this form of the lujvo. > chapters/04.xml- The fourth form, > chapters/04.xml- ge'u-zdani, however, r= equires an > chapters/04.xml- r-hyphen; otherwise, the > *********************************************************************** g= ekmau > chapters/12.xml- other than a big boat. > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- lujvo cre= ationuse of multiple SE in If = the lujvo we want to modify with SE has a seltau already starting with a SE= rafsi, we can take a shortcut. For instance, > chapters/12.xml: gekmau means > chapters/12.xml- happier than, while > chapters/12.xml: selgekmau means > chapters/12.xml- making people happier than, more enjoyable tha= n, more of a 'se gleki' than. If something is less enjoyable than s= omething else, we can say it is > chapters/12.xml: se selgekmau. > chapters/12.xml- But we can also say it is > chapters/12.xml: selselgekmau. Two > chapters/12.xml- se cmavo in a row cancel each other ( > chapters/12.xml- se se gleki means the same as = just > chapters/12.xml- gleki), so there would be no good reas= on to have > *********************************************************************** g= erkyzda > chapters/04.xml- The last two forms require > chapters/04.xml- y-hyphens, as all 4-letter rafsi do, and so are > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: gerkyzda and > chapters/04.xml: gerkyzdani respectively. > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml-boat class= example > *********************************************************************** g= erkyzdani > chapters/04.xml- y-hyphens, as all 4-letter rafsi do, and so are > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- gerkyzda and > chapters/04.xml: gerkyzdani respectively. > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml-boat class= example > *********************************************************************** g= erselzda > chapters/12.xml- s1 is housed by nest s2<= /content> > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- and so the three-part lujvo > chapters/12.xml: gerselzda would have the place structu= re > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d6"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>s1=3Dg1 is a dog housed = in nest s2 of dog breed g2</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">However, although > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>gerselzda</valsi> is a valid lujvo, it doesn't= translate > chapters/12.xml- <quote>doghouse</quote>; its first place is the dog, = not the doghouse. Furthermore, it is more complicated than necessary; > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerzda</valsi> is simpler than > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>gerselzda</valsi>.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>From the reader's or listener's point of view, = it may not always be obvious whether a newly met lujvo is symmetrical or as= ymmetrical, and if the latter, what kind of asymmetrical lujvo. If the plac= e structure of the lujvo isn't given in a dictionary or elsewhere, then pla= usibility must be applied, just as in interpreting tanru.</para> > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <para> > *********************************************************************** g= erzdani > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>ge</valsi> cannot fall off the front, because = the following word would begin with > chapters/04.xml- <morphology>rz</morphology>, which is not a permissib= le initial consonant pair. So the lujvo forms are > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>gerzda</valsi> and > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>gerzdani</valsi>.</para> > chapters/04.xml- <para>The third form, > chapters/04.xml- <rafsi>ge'u</rafsi><rafsi>-zda</rafsi>, needs no hyph= en, because even though the first rafsi is CVV, the second one is CCV, so t= here is a consonant cluster in the first five letters. So > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>ge'uzda</valsi> is this form of the lujvo.</pa= ra> > *********************************************************************** g= icmu > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>gismu</valsi> is in the set of gismu, > chapters/04.xml- <valsi valid=3D"false">kismu</valsi>, > chapters/04.xml- <valsi valid=3D"false">xismu</valsi>, > chapters/04.xml: <valsi valid=3D"false">gicmu</valsi>, > chapters/04.xml- <valsi valid=3D"false">gizmu</valsi>, and > chapters/04.xml- <valsi valid=3D"false">gisnu</valsi> cannot be.</para= > > chapters/04.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>gismu</pr= imary><secondary>source of</secondary></indexterm> Almost all Lojban gismu = are constructed from pieces of words drawn from other languages, specifical= ly Chinese, English, Hindi, Spanish, Russian, and Arabic, the six most wide= ly spoken natural languages. For a given concept, words in the six language= s that represent that concept were written in Lojban phonetics. Then a gism= u was selected to maximize the recognizability of the Lojban word for speak= ers of the six languages by weighting the inclusion of the sounds drawn fro= m each language by the number of speakers of that language. See > -- > chapters/04.xml- <listitem> > chapters/04.xml- <para>The gismu form with the highest score usual= ly became the actual gismu. Sometimes a lower-scoring form was used to prov= ide a better rafsi. A few gismu were changed in error as a result of transc= ription blunders (for example, the gismu > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>gismu</valsi> should have been > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>gicmu</valsi>, but it's too late to fix it= now).</para> > chapters/04.xml- <para>The language weights used to make most of t= he gismu were as follows:</para> > chapters/04.xml- <informaltable> > chapters/04.xml- <tr> > *********************************************************************** g= ripau > chapters/18.xml- <listitem><definition><content>x1 is a member of = set x2</content></definition></listitem> > chapters/18.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml: <term><valsi>gripau</valsi></term> > chapters/18.xml- <listitem><definition><content>x1 is a subset of = set x2 [<valsi>girzu</valsi> <valsi>pagbu</valsi>, set-part]</content></def= inition></listitem> > chapters/18.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** g= rutrceraso > chapters/05.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>asymmetri= cal tanru types</primary><secondary>similar-appearance-object + object</sec= ondary></indexterm> As a particular case (when the property is that of rese= mblance): the seltau specifies an object which the referent of the tanru re= sembles.</para> > chapters/05.xml- <informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>grutrceraso jbama</jbophrase><= /td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>cherry bomb</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>grutrceraso</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>fu'ivla for <quote>cherry</quote>= based on Linnean name</para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** i= ntegrale > chapters/04.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>fu'ivla c= ategorizer</primary><secondary>for distinguishing specialized meanings</sec= ondary></indexterm> For another example, > chapters/04.xml- <quote>integral</quote> has a specific meaning to a m= athematician. But the Lojban fu'ivla > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>integrale</valsi>, which is a valid Stage 4 fu= 'ivla, does not convey that mathematical sense to a non-mathematical listen= er, even one with an English-speaking background; its source – the En= glish word > chapters/04.xml- <quote>integral</quote> – has various other spe= cialized meanings in other fields.</para> > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- <para>Left uncontrolled, > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>integrale</valsi> almost certainly would event= ually come to mean the same collection of loosely related concepts that Eng= lish associates with > chapters/04.xml- <quote>integral</quote>, with only the context to ind= icate (possibly) that the mathematical term is meant.</para> > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- <para> > -- > chapters/04.xml-The prefix method would render the mathematical concept a= s > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>cmacrntegrale</valsi>, if the > chapters/04.xml- <letteral>i</letteral> of > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>integrale</valsi> is removed, or something lik= e > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>cmacrnintegrale</valsi>, if a new consonant is= added to the beginning; > chapters/04.xml- <rafsi>cmac-</rafsi> is the rafsi for > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>cmaci</valsi> ( > chapters/04.xml- <quote>mathematics</quote>). The architectural sense = of > chapters/04.xml- <quote>integral</quote> might be conveyed with > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>djinrnintegrale</valsi> or > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>tarmrnintegrale</valsi>, where > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>dinju</valsi> and > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>tarmi</valsi> mean > chapters/04.xml- <quote>building</quote> and > *********************************************************************** k= ambla > chapters/12.xml- <rafsi>kam-</rafsi> lujvo ( > chapters/12.xml- <rafsi>kam-</rafsi> is the rafsi for > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>ka</valsi>); > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>kambla</valsi> is > chapters/12.xml- <quote>blueness</quote>.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>Even though the cmavo of NU are long-scope in n= ature, governing the whole following bridi, the NU rafsi should generally b= e used as short-scope modifiers, like the SE and NAhE rafsi discussed in > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"section-seltau-SE"/>.</para> > *********************************************************************** k= arcykla > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- The lujvo > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>karcykla</valsi>, for example, is based on > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>karce klama</jbophrase>, or > chapters/12.xml- <quote>car goer</quote>. The place structure of > chapters/12.xml- > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para>karce: ka1 is a car carrying ka2 propelled by= ka3</para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">A asymmetrical interpretation o= f > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>karcykla</valsi> that is strictly analogous to= the place structure of > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerzda</valsi>, equating the kl2 (destination)= and ka1 (car) places, would lead to the place structure</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-GgxL"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > *********************************************************************** k= lamau > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>nelcymau</valsi> mean > chapters/12.xml- <quote>X likes Y more than X likes Z</quote>, or > chapters/12.xml- <quote>X likes Y more than Z likes Y</quote>? Does > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>klamau</valsi> mean: > chapters/12.xml- <quote>X goes to Y more than to Z</quote>, > chapters/12.xml- <quote>X goes to Y more than Z does</quote>, > chapters/12.xml- <quote>X goes to Y from Z more than from W</quote>, o= r what?</para> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para> > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>selnelcymau</valsi>: z1, more than z2, is li= ked by n1 in amount z4</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para> > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>klamau</valsi>: z1, more than z2, goes to k2= from k3 via k4 by means of k5</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para> > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>selklamau</valsi>: z1, more than z2, is gone= to by k1 from k3 via k4 by means of k5</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para> > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terklamau</valsi>: z1, more than z2, is an o= rigin point from destination k2 for k1's going via k4 by means of k5</para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"noindent">(See > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"chapter-abstractions"/> for the way = in which this problem is resolved when lujvo aren't used.)</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>The ordering rule places the things being compa= red first, and the other seltau places following. Unfortunately the z4 plac= e, which expresses by how much one entity exceeds the other, is displaced i= nto a lujvo place whose number is different for each lujvo. For example, wh= ile > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>nelcymau</valsi> has z4 as its fourth place, > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>klamau</valsi> has it as its sixth place. In a= ny sentence where a difficulty arises, this amount-place can be redundantly= tagged with > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>vemau</valsi> (for > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>zmadu</valsi>) or > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>veme'a</valsi> (for > *********************************************************************** l= abmau > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- <quote>-er</quote> such as > chapters/04.xml- <quote>whiter</quote> (Lojban > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>labmau</valsi>). On the other hand, > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>bakri</valsi> ( > chapters/04.xml- <quote>chalk</quote>) has no short rafsi and few lujv= o.</para> > chapters/04.xml- <para>There are at most one CVC-form, one CCV-form, a= nd one CVV-form rafsi per gismu. In fact, only a tiny handful of gismu have= both a CCV-form and a CVV-form rafsi assigned, and still fewer have all th= ree forms of short rafsi. However, gismu with both a CVC-form and another s= hort rafsi are fairly common, partly because more possible CVC-form rafsi e= xist. Yet CVC-form rafsi, even though they are fairly easy to remember, can= not be used at the end of a lujvo (because lujvo must end in vowels), so ju= stifying the assignment of an additional short rafsi to many gismu.</para> > *********************************************************************** l= amgri > chapters/05.xml- <td>house row</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>selci lamgri</jbophrase></td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>cell block</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>line-group</para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>lamgri</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>adjacent-group</para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** l= ange'u > chapters/12.xml- <para>Another example of this kind of anomalous lujvo= , drawn from the tanru lists in > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"section-asymmetric-tanru"/>, is > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>lange'u</valsi>, meaning > chapters/12.xml- <quote>sheepdog</quote>. Clearly a sheepdog is not a = dog which is a sheep (the symmetrical interpretation is wrong), nor a dog o= f the sheep breed (the asymmetrical interpretation is wrong). Indeed, there= is simply no overlap in the places of > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lantro</valsi> (sheep-controller) and > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerku</valsi>, but > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lantro</valsi> is itself an asymmetrical lujvo= . The l2 place, the breed of sheep, is removed as dependent on l1. However,= the lujvo > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>lange'u</valsi> is both shorter than > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> and sufficiently clear t= o warrant its use: its place structure, however, should be the same as that= of the longer lujvo, for which > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>lange'u</valsi> can be understood as an abbrev= iation.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>Another example is > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, > chapters/12.xml- <quote>to command by hand, to beckon</quote>. The com= ponent place structures are:</para> > *********************************************************************** l= antro > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lanme</valsi> and > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerku</valsi> at all. Rather, the lujvo refers= to a dog which controls sheep flocks, a > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>terlanme jitro gerku</jbophrase>, the lujv= o from which is > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> with place structure:</p= ara> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-TW5Q"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e14d5"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>jitro</valsi>: j1 controls j2 in activity j3= </para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">Note that this lujvo is symmetr= ical between > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>lantro</valsi> (sheep-controller) and > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerku</valsi>, but > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>lantro</valsi> is itself an asymmetrical lujvo= . The l2 place, the breed of sheep, is removed as dependent on l1. However,= the lujvo > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lange'u</valsi> is both shorter than > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> and sufficiently clear t= o warrant its use: its place structure, however, should be the same as that= of the longer lujvo, for which > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lange'u</valsi> can be understood as an abbrev= iation.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>Another example is > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, the gismu > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>pilno</valsi>, which is not explicit in the ve= ljvo. And it also means that, for a place structure derivation that actuall= y makes sense, rather than being ad-hoc, the Lojbanist should probably go t= hrough a derivation for > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xancypliminde</valsi> or one of the other poss= ibilities that is analogous to the analysis of > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> above, even if he or she= decides to stick with a shorter, more convenient form like > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>. In addition, of course, the p= ossibilities of elliptical lujvo increase their potential ambiguity enormou= sly – an unavoidable fact which should be borne in mind.</para> > chapters/12.xml- </section> > chapters/12.xml- <section xml:id=3D"section-comparatives"> > *********************************************************************** l= ikygau > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>l1 is a quantity of liqu= id of composition l2 under conditions l3</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"noindent">can give > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>likygau</valsi>, meaning > chapters/12.xml- <quote>to liquefy</quote>:</para> > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-p5Bt"> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>g1 (agent) causes l1 to = be a quantity of liquid of composition l2 under conditions l3.</content></d= efinition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">While > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>likygau</valsi> correctly represents > chapters/12.xml- <quote>causes to be a liquid</quote>, a different luj= vo based on > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>galfi</valsi> (meaning > chapters/12.xml- <quote>modify</quote>) may be more appropriate for > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gasnu</valsi>, because its r1 place is another= event rather than a person: > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>lo rinka</jbophrase> is a cause, not a cau= ser. Thus the place structure of > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>likyri'a</valsi>, a lujvo analogous to > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>likygau</valsi>, is</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-1HT3"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e13d11"/> > *********************************************************************** l= ikyri'a > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>rinka</valsi> is less generally useful than > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gasnu</valsi>, because its r1 place is another= event rather than a person: > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>lo rinka</jbophrase> is a cause, not a cau= ser. Thus the place structure of > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>likyri'a</valsi>, a lujvo analogous to > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>likygau</valsi>, is</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-1HT3"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > *********************************************************************** l= ivgyterbilma > chapters/04.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c4e6d15"/> > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: na'e zei .a zei na'e zei by. livgyterbilma > chapters/04.xml- non-A, non-B liver-disease > chapters/04.xml- non-A, non-B hepatitis > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- zeis from it doesn't end with a brivla= , and in fact is not even grammatical. As written, the example is a tanru w= ith two components, but by adding a > chapters/04.xml- zei between > chapters/04.xml- by. and > chapters/04.xml: livgyterbilma to produce > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c4e6d17"/> > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: na'e zei .a zei na'e zei by. zei livgyterbil= ma > chapters/04.xml- non-A-non-B-hepatitis > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > *********************************************************************** l= o'ikle > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- lotkle > chapters/04.xml- blokle > chapters/04.xml: lo'ikle > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- lotlei > chapters/04.xml- blolei > -- > chapters/04.xml- 5858 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lo'ikle > chapters/04.xml- 6367 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- So the form > chapters/04.xml- blolei is preferred, but only by a tin= y margin over > chapters/04.xml- blokle; "lotlei" and "lotkle" are only= slightly worse; > chapters/04.xml: lo'ikle suffers because of its apostro= phe, and > chapters/04.xml- lo'irlei because of having both apostr= ophe and hyphen. > chapters/04.xml- Our third example will result in forming both a= lujvo and a name from the tanru > chapters/04.xml- logji bangu girzu, or > *********************************************************************** l= o'irlei > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- lotlei > chapters/04.xml- blolei > chapters/04.xml: lo'irlei > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- Only > chapters/04.xml: lo'irlei requires hyphenation (to avoi= d confusion with the cmavo sequence > chapters/04.xml- lo'i lei). All six forms are v= alid versions of the lujvo, as are the six further forms using long rafsi; = however, the scoring algorithm produces the following results: > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- 5847 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lo'irlei > chapters/04.xml- 7456 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- blolei is preferred, but only by a tin= y margin over > chapters/04.xml- blokle; "lotlei" and "lotkle" are only= slightly worse; > chapters/04.xml- lo'ikle suffers because of its apostro= phe, and > chapters/04.xml: lo'irlei because of having both apostr= ophe and hyphen. > chapters/04.xml- Our third example will result in forming both a= lujvo and a name from the tanru > chapters/04.xml- logji bangu girzu, or > chapters/04.xml- logical-language group in English. ( > *********************************************************************** l= ojbangri > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- After hyphenation, we have: > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lojbangri > chapters/04.xml- lojbaugri > chapters/04.xml- lojbangygri<= /member> > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- The only fully reduced lujvo forms are > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lojbangri and > chapters/04.xml- lojbaugri, of which the latter has a s= lightly lower score: 8827 versus 8796, respectively. However, for the name = of the organization, we chose to make sure the name of the language was emb= edded in it, and to use the clearer long-form rafsi for > chapters/04.xml- girzu, producing > chapters/04.xml- lojbangirz. > *********************************************************************** l= ojbaugri > chapters/04.xml- After hyphenation, we have: > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- lojbangri > chapters/04.xml: lojbaugri > chapters/04.xml- lojbangygri<= /member> > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- logjybangri<= /member> > -- > chapters/04.xml- The only fully reduced lujvo forms are > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- lojbangri and > chapters/04.xml: lojbaugri, of which the latter has a s= lightly lower score: 8827 versus 8796, respectively. However, for the name = of the organization, we chose to make sure the name of the language was emb= edded in it, and to use the clearer long-form rafsi for > chapters/04.xml- girzu, producing > chapters/04.xml- lojbangirz. > chapters/04.xml- Finally, here is a four-part lujvo with a cmavo= in it, based on the tanru > *********************************************************************** l= otkle > chapters/04.xml- -kle- and > chapters/04.xml- -lei-. Both these gismu are among the = handful which have both CVV-form and CCV-form rafsi, so there is an unusual= number of possibilities available for a two-part tanru: > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lotkle > chapters/04.xml- blokle > chapters/04.xml- lo'ikle > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- lo'i lei). All six forms are v= alid versions of the lujvo, as are the six further forms using long rafsi; = however, the scoring algorithm produces the following results: > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lotkle > chapters/04.xml- 5878 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- So the form > chapters/04.xml- blolei is preferred, but only by a tin= y margin over > chapters/04.xml: blokle; "lotlei" and "lotkle" are only= slightly worse; > chapters/04.xml- lo'ikle suffers because of its apostro= phe, and > chapters/04.xml- lo'irlei because of having both apostr= ophe and hyphen. > chapters/04.xml- Our third example will result in forming both a= lujvo and a name from the tanru > *********************************************************************** l= otlei > chapters/04.xml- blokle > chapters/04.xml- lo'ikle > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lotlei > chapters/04.xml- blolei > chapters/04.xml- lo'irlei > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- 6367 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: lotlei > chapters/04.xml- 5867 > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- So the form > chapters/04.xml- blolei is preferred, but only by a tin= y margin over > chapters/04.xml: blokle; "lotlei" and "lotkle" are only= slightly worse; > chapters/04.xml- lo'ikle suffers because of its apostro= phe, and > chapters/04.xml- lo'irlei because of having both apostr= ophe and hyphen. > chapters/04.xml- Our third example will result in forming both a= lujvo and a name from the tanru > *********************************************************************** m= ampa'u > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: mampa'u > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- which refers specifically to = the concept > chapters/04.xml- maternal grandfather. The two gismu th= at constitute the tanru are represented in > chapters/04.xml: mampa'u by the rafsi > chapters/04.xml- mam- and > chapters/04.xml- -pa'u, respectively; these two rafsi a= re then concatenated together to form > chapters/04.xml: mampa'u. > chapters/04.xml- long rafs= i formcompared with short form in effect on lujvo mean= ing short raf= si formcompared with long form in effect on lujvo mean= ing rafsi for= meffect of choice on meaning of lujvo lujvomul= tiple forms of lujvomeaning of Like gismu, = lujvo have only one meaning. When a lujvo is formally entered into a dictio= nary of the language, a specific definition will be assigned based on one p= articular interrelationship between the terms. (See > chapters/04.xml- for how this has be= en done.) Unlike gismu, lujvo may have more than one form. This is because = there is no difference in meaning between the various rafsi for a gismu whe= n they are used to build a lujvo. A long rafsi may be used, especially in n= oisy environments, in place of a short rafsi; the result is considered the = same lujvo, even though the word is spelled and pronounced differently. Thu= s the word > chapters/04.xml- > -- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: mampa'u > chapters/04.xml- mamta patfu > chapters/04.xml- mother father > chapters/04.xml- or maternal grandfather > *********************************************************************** m= anskapi > chapters/01.xml- this book= reviewers of reviewers of this book I would = like to thank the following people for their detailed reviews, suggestions,= comments, and early detection of my embarrassing errors in Lojban, logic, = English, and cross-references: Nick Nicholas, Mark Shoulson, Veijo Vilva, C= olin Fine, And Rosta, Jorge Llambias, Iain Alexander, Paulo S. L. M. Barret= o, Robert J. Chassell, Gale Cowan, Karen Stein, Ivan Derzhanski, Jim Carter= , Irene Gates, Bob LeChevalier, John Parks-Clifford (also known as > chapters/01.xml- pc), and Nora Tansky LeChevalier. > chapters/01.xml- Nick Nicholas (NSN) would like to thank the fol= lowing Lojbanists: Mark Shoulson, Veijo Vilva, Colin Fine, And Rosta, and I= ain Alexander for their suggestions and comments; John Cowan, for his exten= sive comments, his exemplary trailblazing of Lojban grammar, and for solvin= g the > chapters/01.xml: manskapi dilemma for NSN; Jorge Llambi= as, for his even more extensive comments, and for forcing NSN to think more= than he was inclined to; Bob LeChevalier, for his skeptical overview of th= e issue, his encouragement, and for scouring all Lojban text his computer h= as been burdened with for lujvo; Nora Tansky LeChevalier, for writing the p= rogram converting old rafsi text to new rafsi text, and sparing NSN from em= barrassing errors; and Jim Carter, for his dogged persistence in analyzing = lujvo algorithmically, which inspired this research, and for first identify= ing the three lujvo classes. > chapters/01.xml- > chapters/01.xml- BrownJames Cooke Of course, the entire = Loglan Project owes a considerable debt to James Cooke Brown as the languag= e inventor, and also to several earlier contributors to the development of = the language. Especially noteworthy are Doug Landauer, Jeff Prothero, Scott= Layson, Jeff Taylor, and Bob McIvor. Final responsibility for the remainin= g errors and infelicities is solely mine. > chapters/01.xml- > *********************************************************************** m= i'erxanpli > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- which lead to the three diffe= rent lujvo > chapters/12.xml- xanplimi'e, > chapters/12.xml: mi'erxanpli, and > chapters/12.xml- minkemxanpli respectively. > chapters/12.xml- latent co= mponent Does this make > chapters/12.xml- xanmi'e wrong? By no means. But it doe= s mean that there is a latent component to the meaning of > *********************************************************************** m= inkemxanpli > chapters/12.xml- which lead to the three diffe= rent lujvo > chapters/12.xml- xanplimi'e, > chapters/12.xml- mi'erxanpli, and > chapters/12.xml: minkemxanpli respectively. > chapters/12.xml- latent co= mponent Does this make > chapters/12.xml- xanmi'e wrong? By no means. But it doe= s mean that there is a latent component to the meaning of > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** m= udysiclu > chapters/04.xml- mudri siclu ( > chapters/04.xml- wooden whistle) cannot form the lujvo > chapters/04.xml- mudsiclu; instead, > chapters/04.xml: mudysiclu must be used. (Remember that > chapters/04.xml- y is not counted in determining = whether the first five letters of a brivla contain a consonant cluster: thi= s is why.) > chapters/04.xml- rafsifour-letterrequirement for y-hyphen<= /tertiary> The > chapters/04.xml- y-hyphen is also used to attach a 4-letter rafsi, for= med by dropping the final vowel of a gismu, to the following rafsi. (This p= rocedure was shown, but not explained, in > *********************************************************************** n= albrablo > chapters/12.xml- to go to a walking surface. Instead, w= e would need > chapters/12.xml- selkemdzukla, with an explicit rafsi f= or > chapters/12.xml- ke. Similarly, > chapters/12.xml: nalbrablo (from > chapters/12.xml- na'e barda bloti) means > chapters/12.xml- non-big boat, whereas > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** n= almle > chapters/15.xml- -no'e-. The selbri in > chapters/15.xml- through > chapters/15.xml- could be r= eplaced by the lujvo > chapters/15.xml: nalmle, > chapters/15.xml- normle, and > chapters/15.xml- tolmle respectively. > chapters/15.xml- This large variety of scalar negations is provi= ded because different scales have different properties. Some scales are ope= n-ended in both directions: there is no > *********************************************************************** n= elcymau > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- comparati= ve lujvopotential ambiguity in= For example, does > chapters/12.xml: nelcymau mean > chapters/12.xml- X likes Y more than X likes Z, or > chapters/12.xml- X likes Y more than Z likes Y? Does > chapters/12.xml- klamau mean: > -- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: nelcymau: z1, more than z2, likes n2= by amount z4 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: selnelcymau: z1, more than z2, is li= ked by n1 in amount z4 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- klamau: z1, more than z2, goes to k2= from k3 via k4 by means of k5 > chapters/12.xml- > -- > chapters/12.xml- (See > chapters/12.xml- for the way = in which this problem is resolved when lujvo aren't used.) > chapters/12.xml- The ordering rule places the things being compa= red first, and the other seltau places following. Unfortunately the z4 plac= e, which expresses by how much one entity exceeds the other, is displaced i= nto a lujvo place whose number is different for each lujvo. For example, wh= ile > chapters/12.xml: nelcymau has z4 as its fourth place, > chapters/12.xml- klamau has it as its sixth place. In a= ny sentence where a difficulty arises, this amount-place can be redundantly= tagged with > chapters/12.xml- vemau (for > chapters/12.xml- zmadu) or > *********************************************************************** n= ilkla > chapters/12.xml- nu, as well as the other abstractors m= entioned in this section, is given in > chapters/12.xml- . > chapters/12.xml- lujvo pla= ce structuremulti-place abstraction lujvo<= /indexterm> lujvo place structure"ni" lujvo For those abs= tractors which have a second place as well, the standard convention is to p= lace this place after, rather than before, the places of the brivla being a= bstracted. The place structure of > chapters/12.xml: nilkla, the lujvo derived from > chapters/12.xml- ni klama, is the imposing: > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** n= ormle > chapters/15.xml- <xref linkend=3D"example-random-id-qh9U"/> through > chapters/15.xml- <xref linkend=3D"example-random-id-qHAV"/> could be r= eplaced by the lujvo > chapters/15.xml- <valsi>nalmle</valsi>, > chapters/15.xml: <valsi>normle</valsi>, and > chapters/15.xml- <valsi>tolmle</valsi> respectively.</para> > chapters/15.xml- <para>This large variety of scalar negations is provi= ded because different scales have different properties. Some scales are ope= n-ended in both directions: there is no > chapters/15.xml- <quote>ultimately ugly</quote> or > *********************************************************************** n= unctikezgau > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <para>Let us make a detailed analysis of the lujvo > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunctikezgau</valsi>, meaning > chapters/12.xml- <quote>to feed</quote>. (If you think this lujvo is e= xcessively longwinded, be patient.) The veljvo of > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunctikezgau</valsi> is > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>nu citka kei gasnu</jbophrase>. The releva= nt place structures are:</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-bSDW"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>n1 is the event of c1 ea= ting c2</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">Now we can transform the veljvo= of > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunctikezgau</valsi> into > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>nuncti gasnu</jbophrase>. The g2 place (wh= at is brought about by the actor g1) obviously denotes the same thing as n1= (the event of eating). So we can eliminate g2 as redundant, leaving us wit= h a tentative place structure of</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-izvp"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">But it is also possible to omit= the n1 place itself! The n1 place describes the event brought about; an ev= ent in Lojban is described as a bridi, by a selbri and its sumti; the selbr= i is already known (it's the seltau), and the sumti are also already known = (they're in the lujvo place structure). So n1 would not give us any informa= tion we didn't already know. In fact, the n1=3Dg2 place is dependent on c1 = and c2 jointly – it does not depend on either c1 or c2 by itself. Bei= ng dependent and derived from the seltau, it is omissible. So the final pla= ce structure of > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunctikezgau</valsi> is:</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-9oTP"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e13d4"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>se gasnu</jbophrase>, then the rafsi > chapters/12.xml- <rafsi>nun</rafsi> and > chapters/12.xml- <rafsi>kez</rafsi> in > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunctikezgau</valsi> are only telling us what = we would already have guessed – that the seltau of a > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gasnu</valsi> lujvo is an event. If we drop th= ese rafsi out, and use instead the shorter lujvo > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>ctigau</valsi>, rejecting its symmetrical inte= rpretation ( > chapters/12.xml- <quote>someone who both does and eats</quote>; > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gasnu</valsi>.)</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>So we can simply use > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>ctigau</valsi> with the same place structure a= s > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunctikezgau</valsi>:</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-ITvd"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e13d5"/> > *********************************************************************** n= unji'a > chapters/05.xml- <valsi>ja</valsi> is appropriate:</para> > chapters/05.xml- <informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>nunji'a nunterji'a</jbophrase>= </td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>victory defeat</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Skt</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>victory or defeat</td> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>nunji'a</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-winning</para></listitem= > > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** n= unkalte > chapters/05.xml- <td>Hun</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>mirli nunkalte</jbophrase></td= > > chapters/05.xml- <td>deer hunting</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Hun</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>finpe nunkalte</jbophrase></td= > > chapters/05.xml- <td>fish hunting</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Tur,Kor,Udm,Aba</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>fishing</td> > -- > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-teaching</para></listite= m> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>nunkalte</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-hunting</para></listitem= > > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** n= unkilbra > chapters/05.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>asymmetri= cal tanru types</primary><secondary>object-of-action + action</secondary></= indexterm> The tertau represents an action, and the seltau then represents = the object of that action:</para> > chapters/05.xml- <informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>pinsi nunkilbra</jbophrase></t= d> > chapters/05.xml- <td>pencil sharpener</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Hun</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>nunkilbra</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>sharpness-apparatus</para></listi= tem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** n= unklama > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>nu1 is the event of k1's= coming/going to k2 from k3 via route k4 by means k5.</content></definition= ></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">Here the first place of > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunklama</valsi> is the first and only place o= f > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>nu</valsi>, and the other five places have bee= n pushed down by one to occupy the second through the sixth places. Full in= formation on > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>nu</valsi>, as well as the other abstractors m= entioned in this section, is given in > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"chapter-abstractions"/>.</para> > *********************************************************************** n= unpinxe > chapters/05.xml- <td>extremity</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>nuncti nunpinxe</jbophrase></t= d> > chapters/05.xml- <td>eating drinking</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Udm</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>cuisine</td> > -- > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-eating</para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>nunpinxe</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-drinking</para></listite= m> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** n= unsoidji > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>ni1 is the amount of k1'= s coming/going to k2 from k3 via route k4 by means k5, measured on scale ni= 2.</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">It is not uncommon for abstract= ors to participate in the making of more complex lujvo as well. For example= , > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunsoidji</valsi>, from the veljvo</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example role=3D"interlinear-gloss-example" xml:id=3D= "example-random-id-RKcH"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e12d4"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"noindent">where the d2 place has disapp= eared altogether, being replaced by the places of the seltau. As shown in > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"example-random-id-8Nos"/>, the order= ing follows this idea of replacement: the seltau places are inserted at the= point where the omitted abstraction place exists in the tertau.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>The lujvo > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunsoidji</valsi> is quite different from the = ordinary asymmetric lujvo > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>soidji</valsi>, a > chapters/12.xml- <quote>soldier desirer</quote>, whose place structure= is just</para> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>d1 desires (a soldier of= army s2) for purpose d3</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">A > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunsoidji</valsi> might be someone who is abou= t to enlist, whereas a > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>soidji</valsi> might be a camp-follower.</para= > > chapters/12.xml- <para>One use of abstract lujvo is to eliminate the n= eed for explicit > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** n= unte'a > chapters/05.xml- <td>host</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>zerle'a nunte'a</jbophrase></t= d> > chapters/05.xml- <td>thief fear</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Skt</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>fear of thieves</td> > -- > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>crime-taker</para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>nunte'a</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-fearing</para></listitem= > > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** n= unterji'a > chapters/05.xml- <valsi>ja</valsi> is appropriate:</para> > chapters/05.xml- <informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>nunji'a nunterji'a</jbophrase>= </td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>victory defeat</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Skt</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>victory or defeat</td> > -- > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-winning</para></listitem= > > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>nunterji'a</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>event-of-losing</para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** p= acraistu > chapters/05.xml- <td>pinky</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>pacraistu zdani</jbophrase></t= d> > chapters/05.xml- <td>hell house</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Skt</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>pacraistu</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>evil-superlative-site</para></lis= titem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** p= evrisnyjelca > chapters/13.xml- <valsi>risnyjelca</valsi> (heart burn) might have a p= lace structure like:</para> > chapters/13.xml- <definition><content>x1 is the heart of x2, burning i= n atmosphere x3 at temperature x4</content></definition> > chapters/13.xml- <para>whereas > chapters/13.xml: <valsi>pevrisnyjelca</valsi>, explicitly marked as fi= gurative, might have the place structure:</para> > chapters/13.xml- <definition><content>x1 is indigestion/heartburn suff= ered by x2</content></definition> > chapters/13.xml- <para>which obviously has nothing to do with the plac= es of either > chapters/13.xml- <valsi>risna</valsi> or > *********************************************************************** p= osydji > chapters/12.xml- <section xml:id=3D"section-tertau-SE"> > chapters/12.xml- <title>Eliding SE rafsi from tertau > chapters/12.xml- lujvo pla= ce structureeffect of "SE"-dropping in terta= u Eliding SE rafsi from tertau gets us into much mo= re trouble. To understand why, recall that lujvo, following their veljvo, d= escribe some type of whatever their tertau describe. Thus, > chapters/12.xml: posydji describes a type of > chapters/12.xml- djica, > chapters/12.xml- gerzda describes a type of > chapters/12.xml- zdani, and so on. What is certain is t= hat > *********************************************************************** r= airgugde > chapters/18.xml- > chapters/18.xml- > chapters/18.xml- indefinite valuessubjective subjective amountsexpressing All of the numbers discussed so f= ar are objective, even if indefinite. If there are exactly six superpowers = ( > chapters/18.xml: rairgugde, > chapters/18.xml- superlative-states) in the world, then > chapters/18.xml: ro rairgugde means the same as > chapters/18.xml: xa rairgugde. It is often usef= ul, however, to express subjective indefinite values. The cmavo > chapters/18.xml- > chapters/18.xml- rau (enough), > chapters/18.xml- > *********************************************************************** r= icrxaceru > chapters/04.xml- maple sugar could get the fu'ivla > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- saktrxaceru, or could be represented b= y the tanru > chapters/04.xml: tricrxaceru sakta. Technically= , > chapters/04.xml: ricrxaceru and > chapters/04.xml: tricrxaceru are distinct fu'ivla, but = they would surely be given the same meanings if both happened to be in use.= > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > *********************************************************************** r= isnyjelca > chapters/13.xml- <valsi>pe'a</valsi> has a rafsi, namely > chapters/13.xml- > chapters/13.xml- <rafsi>pev</rafsi>. This rafsi is used in forming fig= urative (culturally dependent) lujvo, whose place structure need have nothi= ng to do with the place structure of the components. Thus > chapters/13.xml: <valsi>risnyjelca</valsi> (heart burn) might have a p= lace structure like:</para> > chapters/13.xml- <definition><content>x1 is the heart of x2, burning i= n atmosphere x3 at temperature x4</content></definition> > chapters/13.xml- <para>whereas > chapters/13.xml: <valsi>pevrisnyjelca</valsi>, explicitly marked as fi= gurative, might have the place structure:</para> > chapters/13.xml- <definition><content>x1 is indigestion/heartburn suff= ered by x2</content></definition> > chapters/13.xml- <para>which obviously has nothing to do with the plac= es of either > chapters/13.xml- <valsi>risna</valsi> or > *********************************************************************** r= o'inre'o > chapters/04.xml- <letteral>y</letteral> letters even though the > chapters/04.xml- <morphology>sc</morphology> actually appears in the f= orm of > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>sy.</valsi>. Similarly, the word > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>ro'inre'o</valsi> contains > chapters/04.xml- <morphology>nr</morphology> in the first five letters= because the apostrophes are not counted for this purpose.</para> > chapters/04.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>brivla</p= rimary><secondary>subtypes of</secondary></indexterm> The three subtypes of= brivla are:</para> > chapters/04.xml- <orderedlist> > -- > chapters/04.xml- <jbophrase valid=3D"false">ro'ire'o</jbophrase> (whic= h breaks up into two cmavo), nor can it be > chapters/04.xml- <jbophrase valid=3D"false">ro'irre'o</jbophrase> (whi= ch has an impermissible double consonant); the > chapters/04.xml- n-hyphen is required, and the correct form of the hyp= henated lujvo is > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>ro'inre'o</valsi>. The same lujvo could also b= e expressed without hyphenation as > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>rokre'o</valsi>.</para> > chapters/04.xml- <para> > chapters/04.xml-<indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>lujvo</primary><seco= ndary>with zei</secondary></indexterm> > *********************************************************************** r= okre'o > chapters/04.xml- <jbophrase valid=3D"false">ro'irre'o</jbophrase> (whi= ch has an impermissible double consonant); the > chapters/04.xml- n-hyphen is required, and the correct form of the hyp= henated lujvo is > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>ro'inre'o</valsi>. The same lujvo could also b= e expressed without hyphenation as > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>rokre'o</valsi>.</para> > chapters/04.xml- <para> > chapters/04.xml-<indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>lujvo</primary><seco= ndary>with zei</secondary></indexterm> > chapters/04.xml-There is also a different way of building lujvo, or rathe= r phrases which are grammatically and semantically equivalent to lujvo. You= can make a phrase containing any desired words, joining each pair of them = with the special cmavo > *********************************************************************** s= aktrxaceru > chapters/04.xml- <quote>tree</quote>. Note that by the same principles= , > chapters/04.xml- <quote>maple sugar</quote> could get the fu'ivla > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>saktrxaceru</valsi>, or could be represented b= y the tanru > chapters/04.xml- <jbophrase>tricrxaceru sakta</jbophrase>. Technically= , > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>ricrxaceru</valsi> and > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>tricrxaceru</valsi> are distinct fu'ivla, but = they would surely be given the same meanings if both happened to be in use.= </para> > *********************************************************************** s= eldzukla > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">We can swap the k1 and k2 place= s using > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>se dzukla</jbophrase>, but we cannot direc= tly make > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>se dzukla</jbophrase> into > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>seldzukla</valsi>, which would represent the v= eljvo > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>selcadzu klama</jbophrase> and plausibly m= ean something like > chapters/12.xml- <quote>to go to a walking surface</quote>. Instead, w= e would need > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>selkemdzukla</valsi>, with an explicit rafsi f= or > *********************************************************************** s= elgekmau > chapters/12.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>lujvo cre= ation</primary><secondary>use of multiple SE in</secondary></indexterm> If = the lujvo we want to modify with SE has a seltau already starting with a SE= rafsi, we can take a shortcut. For instance, > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gekmau</valsi> means > chapters/12.xml- <quote>happier than</quote>, while > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>selgekmau</valsi> means > chapters/12.xml- <quote>making people happier than, more enjoyable tha= n, more of a 'se gleki' than</quote>. If something is less enjoyable than s= omething else, we can say it is > chapters/12.xml: <jbophrase>se selgekmau</jbophrase>.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>But we can also say it is > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>selselgekmau</valsi>. Two > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>se</valsi> cmavo in a row cancel each other ( > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>se se gleki</jbophrase> means the same as = just > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gleki</valsi>), so there would be no good reas= on to have > *********************************************************************** s= eljdasku > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">The l3 place (the beliefs of th= e religion) is dependent on the l1 place (the religion) and so is omitted.<= /para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>We could make this lujvo less messy by replacin= g it with > chapters/12.xml: <jbophrase>se seljdasku</jbophrase>, where > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>seljdasku</valsi> is a normal symmetrical lujv= o with place structure:</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-7Tdb"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e14d4"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"noindent">which, according to the rule = expressed in > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"section-seltau-SE"/>, can be further= expressed as > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>selseljdasku</valsi>. However, there is no nee= d for the ugly > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>selsel-</jbophrase> prefix just to get the= rules right: > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>jdaselsku</valsi> is a reasonable, if anomalou= s, lujvo.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>However, there is a further problem with > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>jdaselsku</valsi>, not resolvable by using > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>seljdasku</valsi>. No veljvo involving just th= e two gismu > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lijda</valsi> and > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>cusku</valsi> can fully express the relationsh= ip implicit in prayer. A prayer is not just anything said by the adherents = of a religion; nor is it even anything said by them acting as adherents of = that religion. Rather, it is what they say under the authority of that reli= gion, or using the religion as a medium, or following the rules associated = with the religion, or something of the kind. So the veljvo is somewhat elli= ptical.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>As a result, both > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>seljdasku</valsi> and > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>jdaselsku</valsi> belong to the second class o= f anomalous lujvo: the veljvo doesn't really supply all that the lujvo requ= ires.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>Another example of this kind of anomalous lujvo= , drawn from the tanru lists in > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** s= elkanla > chapters/12.xml- <para>What is happening here is that we are translati= ng the tertau wrongly, under the influence of English. The English suffix > chapters/12.xml- <quote>-eyed</quote> does not mean > chapters/12.xml- <quote>eye</quote>, but someone with an eye, which is > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>selkanla</valsi>.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>Because we've got the wrong tertau (eliding a > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>se</valsi> that really should be there), any a= ttempt to accommodate the resulting lujvo into our guidelines for place str= ucture is fitting a square peg in a round hole. Since they can be so mislea= ding, lujvo with SE rafsi elided from the tertau should be avoided in favor= of their more explicit counterparts: in this case, > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>blaselkanla</valsi>.</para> > chapters/12.xml- </section> > chapters/12.xml- <section xml:id=3D"section-eliding-ke-kehe"> > chapters/12.xml- <title>Eliding KE and KEhE rafsi from lujvo > *********************************************************************** s= elkemdzukla > chapters/12.xml- seldzukla, which would represent the v= eljvo > chapters/12.xml- selcadzu klama and plausibly m= ean something like > chapters/12.xml- to go to a walking surface. Instead, w= e would need > chapters/12.xml: selkemdzukla, with an explicit rafsi f= or > chapters/12.xml- ke. Similarly, > chapters/12.xml- nalbrablo (from > chapters/12.xml- na'e barda bloti) means > *********************************************************************** s= elklamau > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- klamau: z1, more than z2, goes to k2= from k3 via k4 by means of k5 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: selklamau: z1, more than z2, is gone= to by k1 from k3 via k4 by means of k5 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- terklamau: z1, more than z2, is an o= rigin point from destination k2 for k1's going via k4 by means of k5 > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** s= elnelcymau > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- nelcymau: z1, more than z2, likes n2= by amount z4 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: selnelcymau: z1, more than z2, is li= ked by n1 in amount z4 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- klamau: z1, more than z2, goes to k2= from k3 via k4 by means of k5 > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** s= elselgekmau > chapters/12.xml- making people happier than, more enjoyable tha= n, more of a 'se gleki' than. If something is less enjoyable than s= omething else, we can say it is > chapters/12.xml- se selgekmau. > chapters/12.xml- But we can also say it is > chapters/12.xml: selselgekmau. Two > chapters/12.xml- se cmavo in a row cancel each other ( > chapters/12.xml- se se gleki means the same as = just > chapters/12.xml- gleki), so there would be no good reas= on to have > *********************************************************************** s= elseljdasku > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- which, according to the rule = expressed in > chapters/12.xml- , can be further= expressed as > chapters/12.xml: selseljdasku. However, there is no nee= d for the ugly > chapters/12.xml- selsel- prefix just to get the= rules right: > chapters/12.xml- jdaselsku is a reasonable, if anomalou= s, lujvo. > chapters/12.xml- However, there is a further problem with > *********************************************************************** s= elti'i > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- lined up This lujvo does not fit any of our ex= isting molds: it is the second seltau place, st2, that is equivalent to one= of the tertau places, namely f1. However, if we understand > chapters/12.xml- ti'ifla as an abbreviation for the luj= vo > chapters/12.xml: selti'ifla, then we get the first plac= es of seltau and tertau lined up. The place structure of > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: selti'i is: > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e9d2"/> > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: selti'i: idea/action se1 is suggeste= d by agent se2 to audience se3 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- Here we can see that se1 (what = is suggested) is equivalent to f1 (the law), and we get a normal symmetrica= l lujvo. The final place structure is: > chapters/12.xml- > -- > chapters/12.xml- where the last place (st3) is= probably some sort of legislature. > chapters/12.xml- lujvoabbreviated Abbreviated lujvo like > chapters/12.xml- ti'ifla are more intuitive (for the lu= jvo-maker) than their more explicit counterparts like > chapters/12.xml: selti'ifla (as well as shorter). They = don't require the coiner to sit down and work out the precise relation betw= een the seltau and the tertau: he or she can just rattle off a rafsi pair. = But should the lujvo get to the stage where a place structure needs to be w= orked out, then the precise relation does need to be specified. And in that= case, such abbreviated lujvo form a trap in lujvo place ordering, since th= ey obscure the most straightforward relation between the seltau and tertau.= To give our lujvo-making guidelines as wide an application as possible, an= d to encourage analyzing the seltau-tertau relation in lujvo, lujvo like > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** s= elzda > chapters/12.xml- , where we = learned that the g1 place was equivalent to the z2 place. In order to get t= he places aligned, we could convert > chapters/12.xml- zdani to > chapters/12.xml- se zdani (or > chapters/12.xml: selzda when expressed as a lujvo). The= place structure of > chapters/12.xml: selzda is > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d5"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>s1 is housed by nest s2<= /content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"noindent">and so the three-part lujvo > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>gerselzda</valsi> would have the place structu= re</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-KqE4"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d6"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>s1=3Dg1 is a dog housed = in nest s2 of dog breed g2</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">However, although > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>gerselzda</valsi> is a valid lujvo, it doesn't= translate > chapters/12.xml- <quote>doghouse</quote>; its first place is the dog, = not the doghouse. Furthermore, it is more complicated than necessary; > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerzda</valsi> is simpler than > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>gerselzda</valsi>.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>From the reader's or listener's point of view, = it may not always be obvious whether a newly met lujvo is symmetrical or as= ymmetrical, and if the latter, what kind of asymmetrical lujvo. If the plac= e structure of the lujvo isn't given in a dictionary or elsewhere, then pla= usibility must be applied, just as in interpreting tanru.</para> > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <para> > *********************************************************************** s= ikcurnu > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>sikcurnu silka</jbophrase></td= > > chapters/05.xml- <td>silkworm silk</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>sikcurnu</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>silk-worm</para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** s= oidji > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>ni1 is the amount of k1'= s coming/going to k2 from k3 via route k4 by means k5, measured on scale ni= 2.</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">It is not uncommon for abstract= ors to participate in the making of more complex lujvo as well. For example= , > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunsoidji</valsi>, from the veljvo</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example role=3D"interlinear-gloss-example" xml:id=3D= "example-random-id-RKcH"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e12d4"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"noindent">where the d2 place has disapp= eared altogether, being replaced by the places of the seltau. As shown in > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"example-random-id-8Nos"/>, the order= ing follows this idea of replacement: the seltau places are inserted at the= point where the omitted abstraction place exists in the tertau.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>The lujvo > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunsoidji</valsi> is quite different from the = ordinary asymmetric lujvo > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>soidji</valsi>, a > chapters/12.xml- <quote>soldier desirer</quote>, whose place structure= is just</para> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-2VMP"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <para><definition><content>d1 desires (a soldier of= army s2) for purpose d3</content></definition></para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">A > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>nunsoidji</valsi> might be someone who is abou= t to enlist, whereas a > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>soidji</valsi> might be a camp-follower.</para= > > chapters/12.xml- <para>One use of abstract lujvo is to eliminate the n= eed for explicit > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>kei</valsi> in tanru: > *********************************************************************** s= patrkoka > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>spatrkoka lanka</jbophrase></t= d> > chapters/05.xml- <td>coca basket</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Que</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>spatrkoka</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>fu'ivla for <quote>coca</quote></= para></listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > *********************************************************************** s= praile > chapters/04.xml- <orderedlist> > chapters/04.xml- <listitem> > chapters/04.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>fu'iv= la</primary><secondary>initial consonant cluster in</secondary></indexterm>= <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>fu'ivla</primary><secondary>rules fo= r formation of</secondary></indexterm> must contain a consonant cluster in = the first five letters of the word; if this consonant cluster is at the beg= inning, it must either be a permissible initial consonant pair, or a longer= cluster such that each pair of adjacent consonants in the cluster is a per= missible initial consonant pair: > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>spraile</valsi> is acceptable, but not > chapters/04.xml- <valsi valid=3D"false">ktraile</valsi> or > chapters/04.xml- <valsi valid=3D"false">trkaile</valsi>;</para> > chapters/04.xml- </listitem> > *********************************************************************** t= armrnintegrale > chapters/04.xml- <quote>integral</quote> might be conveyed with > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>djinrnintegrale</valsi> or > chapters/04.xml: <valsi>tarmrnintegrale</valsi>, where > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>dinju</valsi> and > chapters/04.xml- <valsi>tarmi</valsi> mean > chapters/04.xml- <quote>building</quote> and > *********************************************************************** t= erci'e > chapters/18.xml- <listitem><definition><content>x1 is approximatel= y equal to x2 [<valsi>namcu</valsi> <valsi>jibni</valsi>, number-near]</con= tent></definition></listitem> > chapters/18.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml: <term><valsi>terci'e</valsi></term> > chapters/18.xml- <listitem><definition><content>x1 is a component = with function x2 of system x3</content></definition></listitem> > chapters/18.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** t= ergusni > chapters/05.xml- <td>tombstone</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>jubme tergusni</jbophrase></td= > > chapters/05.xml- <td>table lamp</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>asymmetri= cal tanru types</primary><secondary>energy-source + powered</secondary></in= dexterm> The seltau specifies a source of energy for the referent of the te= rtau.</para> > chapters/05.xml- <informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>dikca tergusni</jbophrase></td= > > chapters/05.xml- <td>electric lamp</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>tergusni</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>illumination-source</para></listi= tem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** t= erkakpa > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>kolme terkakpa</jbophrase></td= > > chapters/05.xml- <td>coal mine</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>terkakpa</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>source of digging</para></listite= m> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** t= erklamau > chapters/12.xml- <para> > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>selklamau</valsi>: z1, more than z2, is gone= to by k1 from k3 via k4 by means of k5</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para> > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terklamau</valsi>: z1, more than z2, is an o= rigin point from destination k2 for k1's going via k4 by means of k5</para> > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"noindent">(See > chapters/12.xml- <xref linkend=3D"chapter-abstractions"/> for the way = in which this problem is resolved when lujvo aren't used.)</para> > *********************************************************************** t= erlantroge'u > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lanme</valsi> and > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerku</valsi> at all. Rather, the lujvo refers= to a dog which controls sheep flocks, a > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>terlanme jitro gerku</jbophrase>, the lujv= o from which is > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> with place structure:</p= ara> > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-TW5Q"> > chapters/12.xml- <title> > chapters/12.xml- <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e14d5"/> > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>gerku</valsi>, but > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lantro</valsi> is itself an asymmetrical lujvo= . The l2 place, the breed of sheep, is removed as dependent on l1. However,= the lujvo > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lange'u</valsi> is both shorter than > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> and sufficiently clear t= o warrant its use: its place structure, however, should be the same as that= of the longer lujvo, for which > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lange'u</valsi> can be understood as an abbrev= iation.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>Another example is > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, the gismu > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>pilno</valsi>, which is not explicit in the ve= ljvo. And it also means that, for a place structure derivation that actuall= y makes sense, rather than being ad-hoc, the Lojbanist should probably go t= hrough a derivation for > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xancypliminde</valsi> or one of the other poss= ibilities that is analogous to the analysis of > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> above, even if he or she= decides to stick with a shorter, more convenient form like > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>. In addition, of course, the p= ossibilities of elliptical lujvo increase their potential ambiguity enormou= sly – an unavoidable fact which should be borne in mind.</para> > chapters/12.xml- </section> > chapters/12.xml- <section xml:id=3D"section-comparatives"> > *********************************************************************** t= i'ifla > chapters/12.xml- <title>Eliding SE rafsi from seltau > chapters/12.xml- lujvodropping SE rafsi It is common to = form lujvo that omit the rafsi based on cmavo of selma'o SE, as well as oth= er cmavo rafsi. Doing so makes lujvo construction for common or useful cons= tructions shorter. Since it puts more strain on the listener who has not he= ard the lujvo before, the shortness of the word should not necessarily outw= eigh ease in understanding, especially if the lujvo refers to a rare or unu= sual concept. > chapters/12.xml- proposed = law Consider as an example the lujvo > chapters/12.xml: ti'ifla, from the veljvo > chapters/12.xml- stidi flalu, and meaning > chapters/12.xml- bill, proposed law. The gismu place st= ructures are: > chapters/12.xml- > -- > chapters/12.xml- by lawgiver f5 > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- lined up This lujvo does not fit any of our ex= isting molds: it is the second seltau place, st2, that is equivalent to one= of the tertau places, namely f1. However, if we understand > chapters/12.xml: ti'ifla as an abbreviation for the luj= vo > chapters/12.xml: selti'ifla, then we get the first plac= es of seltau and tertau lined up. The place structure of > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- selti'i is: > chapters/12.xml- > -- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- where the last place (st3) is= probably some sort of legislature. > chapters/12.xml- lujvoabbreviated Abbreviated lujvo like > chapters/12.xml: ti'ifla are more intuitive (for the lu= jvo-maker) than their more explicit counterparts like > chapters/12.xml: selti'ifla (as well as shorter). They = don't require the coiner to sit down and work out the precise relation betw= een the seltau and the tertau: he or she can just rattle off a rafsi pair. = But should the lujvo get to the stage where a place structure needs to be w= orked out, then the precise relation does need to be specified. And in that= case, such abbreviated lujvo form a trap in lujvo place ordering, since th= ey obscure the most straightforward relation between the seltau and tertau.= To give our lujvo-making guidelines as wide an application as possible, an= d to encourage analyzing the seltau-tertau relation in lujvo, lujvo like > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: ti'ifla are given the place structure = they would have with the appropriate SE added to the seltau. > chapters/12.xml- plausibil= ityin abbreviated lujvo abbreviated lujvo and plausibility implausible Note that, with these lujvo, an interpretation requiring SE inse= rtion is safe only if the alternatives are either implausible or unlikely t= o be needed as a lujvo. This may not always be the case, and Lojbanists sho= uld be aware of the risk of ambiguity. > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** t= ricrxaceru > chapters/04.xml- maple sugar could get the fu'ivla > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- saktrxaceru, or could be represented b= y the tanru > chapters/04.xml: tricrxaceru sakta. Technically= , > chapters/04.xml- ricrxaceru and > chapters/04.xml: tricrxaceru are distinct fu'ivla, but = they would surely be given the same meanings if both happened to be in use.= > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > chapters/04.xml- > *********************************************************************** t= urdu'i > chapters/18.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml- > chapters/18.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml: <term><valsi>turdu'i</valsi></term> > chapters/18.xml- <listitem><definition><content>x1 is isomorphic t= o x2 [<valsi>stura</valsi> <valsi>dunli</valsi>, structure-equal]</content>= </definition></listitem> > chapters/18.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/18.xml- > *********************************************************************** v= elmikce > chapters/05.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>asymmetri= cal tanru types</primary><secondary>locus-of-application + object</secondar= y></indexterm> The seltau specifies the locus of application of the tertau.= </para> > chapters/05.xml- <informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <tr> > chapters/05.xml: <td><jbophrase>kanla velmikce</jbophrase></td= > > chapters/05.xml- <td>eye medicine</td> > chapters/05.xml- <td>Chi</td> > chapters/05.xml- </tr> > -- > chapters/05.xml- </informaltable> > chapters/05.xml- <variablelist> > chapters/05.xml- <varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml: <term><valsi>velmikce</valsi></term> > chapters/05.xml- <listitem><para>treatment used by doctor</para></= listitem> > chapters/05.xml- </varlistentry> > chapters/05.xml- </variablelist> > *********************************************************************** x= ancypliminde > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, the gismu > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>pilno</valsi>, which is not explicit in the ve= ljvo. And it also means that, for a place structure derivation that actuall= y makes sense, rather than being ad-hoc, the Lojbanist should probably go t= hrough a derivation for > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>xancypliminde</valsi> or one of the other poss= ibilities that is analogous to the analysis of > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> above, even if he or she= decides to stick with a shorter, more convenient form like > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>. In addition, of course, the p= ossibilities of elliptical lujvo increase their potential ambiguity enormou= sly – an unavoidable fact which should be borne in mind.</para> > chapters/12.xml- </section> > *********************************************************************** x= anmi'e > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> and sufficiently clear t= o warrant its use: its place structure, however, should be the same as that= of the longer lujvo, for which > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>lange'u</valsi> can be understood as an abbrev= iation.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para>Another example is > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, > chapters/12.xml- <quote>to command by hand, to beckon</quote>. The com= ponent place structures are:</para> > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-VjbP"> > -- > chapters/12.xml- </example> > chapters/12.xml- <para role=3D"indent">The relation between the seltau= and tertau is close enough for there to be an overlap: xa2 (the person wit= h the hand) is the same as m1 (the one who commands). But interpreting > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi> as a symmetrical lujvo with an= elided > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>sel-</jbophrase> in the seltau, as if from > chapters/12.xml- <jbophrase>se xance minde</jbophrase>, misses the poi= nt: the real relation expressed by the lujvo is not just > chapters/12.xml- <quote>one who commands and has a hand</quote>, but > -- > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>mi'erxanpli</valsi>, and > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>minkemxanpli</valsi> respectively.</para> > chapters/12.xml- <para> <indexterm type=3D"general"><primary>latent co= mponent</primary></indexterm> Does this make > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi> wrong? By no means. But it doe= s mean that there is a latent component to the meaning of > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>, the gismu > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>pilno</valsi>, which is not explicit in the ve= ljvo. And it also means that, for a place structure derivation that actuall= y makes sense, rather than being ad-hoc, the Lojbanist should probably go t= hrough a derivation for > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>xancypliminde</valsi> or one of the other poss= ibilities that is analogous to the analysis of > chapters/12.xml- <valsi>terlantroge'u</valsi> above, even if he or she= decides to stick with a shorter, more convenient form like > chapters/12.xml: <valsi>xanmi'e</valsi>. In addition, of course, the p= ossibilities of elliptical lujvo increase their potential ambiguity enormou= sly – an unavoidable fact which should be borne in mind.</para> > chapters/12.xml- </section> > chapters/12.xml- <section xml:id=3D"section-comparatives"> > chapters/12.xml- <title>Comparatives and superlatives > *********************************************************************** x= anplimi'e > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- which lead to the three diffe= rent lujvo > chapters/12.xml: xanplimi'e, > chapters/12.xml- mi'erxanpli, and > chapters/12.xml- minkemxanpli respectively. > chapters/12.xml- latent co= mponent Does this make > *********************************************************************** x= askemcakcurnu > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- shellfish There are cases, however, where omitting a KE or KEhE rafsi c= an produce another lujvo, equally useful. For example, > chapters/12.xml: xaskemcakcurnu means > chapters/12.xml- oceanic shellfish, and has the veljvo<= /para> > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** x= asycakcurnu > chapters/12.xml- = invertebrate ( > chapters/12.xml- worm in Lojban refers to any invertebr= ate), but > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml: xasycakcurnu has the veljvo > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > chapters/12.xml- > *********************************************************************** x= elklama > chapters/10.xml- <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>boat sailed<= /primary></indexterm> > chapters/10.xml- > chapters/10.xml- > chapters/10.xml: le bloti pu za'o xelklama > chapters/10.xml- The boat [past] [superfective] is-a-transp= ort-mechanism > chapters/10.xml- > chapters/10.xml- > -- > chapters/10.xml- > chapters/10.xml- > chapters/10.xml- Probably it sailed up onto the = dock. One point of clarification: although > chapters/10.xml: xelklama appears to mean simply > chapters/10.xml- is-a-mode-of-transport, it does not &n= dash; the bridi of > chapters/10.xml- has four o= mitted arguments, and thus has the (physical) journey which goes on too lon= g as part of its meaning. > chapters/10.xml- > *********************************************************************** z= ilpavypinxe > chapters/07.xml- se pinxe be zi'o, the lujvo co= rresponding to this is > chapters/07.xml- zilrelselpinxe (deleting the second pl= ace of > chapters/07.xml- se pinxe). Deleting the x1 pla= ce in this fashion would move all remaining places up by one. This would me= an that > chapters/07.xml: zilpavypinxe has the same place struct= ure as > chapters/07.xml- zilrelselpinxe, and > chapters/07.xml: lo zilpavypinxe, like > chapters/07.xml- lo zilrelselpinxe, refers to a= beverage, and not to a non-existent drinker. > chapters/07.xml- > chapters/07.xml- pro-bridi= rafsias producing context-dependent meanings The pro-bridi > *********************************************************************** z= ilrelselpinxe > chapters/07.xml- > chapters/07.xml- > chapters/07.xml- se pinxe be zi'o, the lujvo co= rresponding to this is > chapters/07.xml: zilrelselpinxe (deleting the second pl= ace of > chapters/07.xml- se pinxe). Deleting the x1 pla= ce in this fashion would move all remaining places up by one. This would me= an that > chapters/07.xml- zilpavypinxe has the same place struct= ure as > chapters/07.xml: zilrelselpinxe, and > chapters/07.xml- lo zilpavypinxe, like > chapters/07.xml: lo zilrelselpinxe, refers to a= beverage, and not to a non-existent drinker. > chapters/07.xml- > chapters/07.xml- pro-bridi= rafsias producing context-dependent meanings The pro-bridi > chapters/07.xml- co'e, > *********************************************************************** z= uljamfu > chapters/04.xml- The lujvo forms > chapters/04.xml- zunlyjamfu, > chapters/04.xml- zunlyjma, > chapters/04.xml: zuljamfu, and > chapters/04.xml- zuljma are all legitimate and equivale= nt forms made from the tanru > chapters/04.xml- zunle jamfu ( > chapters/04.xml- left foot). Of these, > *********************************************************************** z= unlyjamfu > chapters/04.xml- to > chapters/04.xml- .) > chapters/04.xml- The lujvo forms > chapters/04.xml: zunlyjamfu, > chapters/04.xml- zunlyjma, > chapters/04.xml- zuljamfu, and > chapters/04.xml- zuljma are all legitimate and equivale= nt forms made from the tanru > *********************************************************************** z= unlyjma > chapters/04.xml- .) > chapters/04.xml- The lujvo forms > chapters/04.xml- zunlyjamfu, > chapters/04.xml: zunlyjma, > chapters/04.xml- zuljamfu, and > chapters/04.xml- zuljma are all legitimate and equivale= nt forms made from the tanru > chapters/04.xml- zunle jamfu ( >=20 > --=20 > http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u .e > lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e > lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni = li'u >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >=20 --=20 http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u .e lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li= 'u --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.