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From: Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>
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Subject: Re: [lojban] seca'o
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On Tuesday, September 01, 2015 10:21:32 Jacob Thomas Errington wrote:
> Why does being an open class forbid them from being what we call "tense"
> in Lojban? I would reckon that in Lojban, there is no grammatical tense.
> Instead you just have predicates, some of which have nice syntactic
> sugar in the form of the "tense" classes PU, ZA, etc.
> 
> .i mi pu lo nu sipna cu citka -> .i lo nu mi citka cu purci lo nu mi
> sipna + the implication that "citka" is claimed.

In that sentence, "pu" is a preposition. In "mi pu citka", it's a tense 
marker.

> Tense is thus already only loosely a grammatical construct in Lojban,
> and under the unified tags proposal becomes even less so. In fact, if
> all fi'o constructs form bridi operators and all TAG cmavo have
> expansions in terms of fi'o constructs, then tense is no longer a closed
> grammatical construct at all in Lojban.

I don't agree with the unified tags proposal. A tense marker may have roughly 
the same meaning as a fi'o construct, but they're not identical in meaning, 
unlike a BAI preposition.

> gernrtensi = x1 is a grammatical tense marker or construct ...
> 
> and fill in the "..." with whatever places you'd think are necessary.

Is that including aspect or not?

On Tuesday, September 01, 2015 17:34:00 Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> Do they include only cmavo? Which selma'o do they cover? I'd like to know
> what exactly you mean by "tense" and "aspect" because personally I don't
> see any need in such words except for teaching purposes but then they don't
> need Lojban words.

Even if Lojban doesn't have tense or aspect (which it does), we should be able 
to talk in Lojban about tense and aspect of languages which do have them.

Pierre
-- 
li fi'u vu'u fi'u fi'u du li pa

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