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[157.56.110.100]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s139si234417ywg.4.2015.10.11.20.55.49 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 11 Oct 2015 20:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 157.56.110.100 as permitted sender) client-ip=157.56.110.100; Received: from BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.141.90.16) by BL2PR01MB371.prod.exchangelabs.com (10.141.90.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.293.16; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:55:48 +0000 Received: from BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.141.90.16]) by BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com ([10.141.90.16]) with mapi id 15.01.0293.007; Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:55:48 +0000 From: Timothy Lawrence To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Subject: [lojban] Level 0 Booklet location and errata page Thread-Topic: Level 0 Booklet location and errata page Thread-Index: AQHRBKHgdw4YpYx6xk+DwM2XPbWWWQ== Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2015 03:55:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1427716991889.33634@connect.qut.edu.au> <1427772204090.97320@connect.qut.edu.au>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-AU, en-US Content-Language: en-AU X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [132.245.164.245] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1;BL2PR01MB371;5:TADBqWUU/pDbftNR7tnzc0lsl+g28AX8qGfyRPkAvVFJfH0Jt8CTlnHwWb7LD4KFwp6pkbKTu2/im0RZITv/zerYK/9jtJc5yP6HhBSWJVPB6D0jvhIcmKEDHeyBOwVHcA9FyEVXPJH34SteTA/nRQ==;24:ZiZRR8YdJfIgTXLY4T53v1farCXrSHWgjhl1OfHpPpLIz8aaAAiNjWL5ac6sA57la7teWYxfvNwvbBz1K9LR/1grZ7cIgxkzXsJ93+McAPI=;20:Uf8HFdTF28ejmPBODXQ/wd/R3VJIXsZcNMQ7pafJN9UCVTsP94jAwL1oGISKOUXkjsgLeQ5Jvmdv2phbWBsKOA== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BL2PR01MB371; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(245723568400019)(18548865197244)(54900358751275); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:(2401047)(5005006)(520078)(8121501046)(3002001);SRVR:BL2PR01MB371;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BL2PR01MB371; x-forefront-prvs: 0727122FC6 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM;SFS:(10009020)(24454002)(164054003)(189002)(199003)(377454003)(377424004)(5004730100002)(92566002)(5007970100001)(10400500002)(5002640100001)(11100500001)(101416001)(105586002)(106116001)(2900100001)(106356001)(74482002)(66066001)(46102003)(64706001)(16297215004)(2950100001)(77096005)(5003600100002)(19580405001)(19580395003)(15188155005)(97736004)(2501003)(12250200002)(450100001)(81156007)(16799955002)(15975445007)(102836002)(40100003)(107886002)(5008740100001)(189998001)(110136002)(5001960100002)(19617315012)(87936001)(74316001)(122556002)(76176999)(50986999)(54356999)(229853001)(2351001)(19627405001)(88552001)(16236675004)(15395725005)(19625215002)(86362001)(33656002)(93886004)(19623215001);DIR:OUT;SFP:1101;SCL:1;SRVR:BL2PR01MB371;H:BL2PR01MB370.prod.exchangelabs.com;FPR:;SPF:None;PTR:InfoNoRecords;MX:1;A:1;LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: connect.qut.edu.au does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BL2PR01MB370C7AB0806A1FFF980A49CEB310BL2PR01MB370prodex_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: connect.qut.edu.au X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Oct 2015 03:55:47.7399 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: dc0b52a3-68c5-44f7-881d-9383d8850b96 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL2PR01MB371 X-Original-Sender: timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au designates 157.56.110.100 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=qut.edu.au Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --_000_BL2PR01MB370C7AB0806A1FFF980A49CEB310BL2PR01MB370prodex_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As per the discussion below, I would like to add a clarification note in th= e Level 0 Booklet Errata, except I can't really find it on the MediaWiki - = more specifically, I can find a number of pages and I'm not sure which is t= he correct one to add it to. This page https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CLL,_aka_Reference_Grammar,_Errata links to either https://mw.lojban.org/papri/What_is_Lojban_errata or https:= //mw.lojban.org/papri/level_0_Booklet_Errata_Introduction but I'm not sure which one to use. In fact I'm not really sure how to get to the Level 0 Booklet anymore... This page https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Learning_materials._Secondary_links links to this page https://mw.lojban.org/papri/level_0_Booklet which links to this page http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojbanbrochure/ which links back to this page http://www.lojban.org/publications/level0.htm= l which comes up as a bad link saying "The requested page title contains inva= lid characters: "%3F"." This needs to be fixed and also simplified (too many redirections). Also the https://mw.lojban.org/papri/What_is_Lojban%3F page seems to duplic= ate some home page information when one might have expected it to point to = the What is Lojban? publication. How do I find the Level 0 Booklet and which page do I use for adding errata= ? ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com = on behalf of Ian Johnson Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2015 11:48 PM To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o" I think it is making some assumptions about the reader's dialect of English= . In American pronunciation for instance, "joke" and "note" indeed have a s= ound which could only be the "o" in Lojban. It is not necessarily the prefe= rred Lojban "o" sound, but it is too far from "a" and "au" for any confusio= n. (This is one of the advantages of not having very many vowels!) mi'e la latro'a mu'o On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 11:23 PM, Timothy Lawrence > wrote: Thanks very much, that all makes sense :) Perhaps the Level 0 Brochure should be updated as its suggested "joke" and = "note" appear to be widely pronounced as that diphthong, which led to my co= nfusion. ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com > on behalf of Michael Turniansky > Sent: Monday, 30 March 2015 11:51 PM To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o" Timothy, I understand you are Australian. if the link you provided is inde= ed how you pronounce "on", then it will probably be confused with the lojba= n "a". It's closer to how that same website pronounces "north". It should= be basically be around either here: or here or in-between (always rounded lips) whereas a hangs around either here or here or in-between always with lips unrounded. --gejyspa On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: You are right. Maybe this will also help you: http://mw.lojban.org/images/b/b1/Lojban_interactive.swf 2015-03-30 15:03 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence >: How is the letter "o" pronounced in Lojban? Is it the monophthong "o", as i= n English "on"? Is = it the diphthong "ow", as in English "own"? (It's hard to describe sounds in writing so I lin= ked to spoken audio samples) I ask because the pronunciation guide of the "Level 0 Booklet" seems to be = indicating it is the latter, based on how I think "joke" and "note" are pro= nounced: http://lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure-utf/phonol.html However, from the same page: "Lojban has diphthongs as well, but these are = always represented by the two vowels that combine to form them." I presumed the intent behind Lojban's phonetic spelling was that each lette= r represents a pure vowel sound and I noted that the pronunciation of "Lojb= an" on its Wiki article seems to indicate the pronunciation might be the fo= rmer monophthong: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Jbo-lo= jban.ogg Thus I've been presuming "o" in Lojban would be pronounced as in English "o= n" and thus "ou" would be the Lojbanic diphthong to represent "ow" as in En= glish "own". Is this correct? Thanks, Timothy --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --_000_BL2PR01MB370C7AB0806A1FFF980A49CEB310BL2PR01MB370prodex_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

As per the discussion below, I would like to add a clarification&nb= sp;note in the Level 0 Booklet Errata, except I can't really find it on the= MediaWiki - more specifically, I can find a number of pages and I'm not su= re which is the correct one to add it to.


This page https://mw.lojban.org/papri/CLL,_aka_R= eference_Grammar,_Errata

links to either=  https://mw.= lojban.org/papri/What_is_Lojban_errata or&nb= sp;https://mw.lojban.org/papri/level= _0_Booklet_Errata_Introduction

but I'm not sure which one to use.


In fact I'm not really sure how to get to the Level 0 Booklet anymore...=

This page https:= //mw.lojban.org/papri/Learning_materials._Secondary_links

links to this page https://mw.lojban.org/papri/level_0_Booklet<= /p>

which links to this page http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/lojb= anbrochure/

which links back to this page http://www.lojban.org/publications/le= vel0.html
which comes up as a bad link saying "The= requested page title contains invalid characters: "%3F".<= span style=3D"line-height: 22.4px; text-align: justify; font-size: 10pt;">&= quot;
This n= eeds to be fixed and also simplified (too many redirections).

Also t= he https://mw.lojban.org/papri/What_is_Lojban%3F page seems= to duplicate some home page information when one might have expected it to point to the What is Lojban? publication.=

How do I find the Level 0 Booklet and which page do I use for adding errata?

From: lojban-beginners@goog= legroups.com <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ian Joh= nson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 31 March 2015 11:48 PM
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o"
 
I think it is making some assumptions about the reader's dialect of En= glish. In American pronunciation for instance, "joke" and "n= ote" indeed have a sound which could only be the "o" in Lojb= an. It is not necessarily the preferred Lojban "o" sound, but it is too far from "a" and "au" for any confusion. (Th= is is one of the advantages of not having very many vowels!)

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 11:23 PM, Timothy Lawren= ce <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au> wrote:

Thanks very much, that all makes sense :)

Perhaps the Level 0 Brochure should be updated as its suggested&nbs= p;"joke" and "note" appear to be widely pronounced= as that diphthong, which led to my confusion.


From: lojb= an-beginners@googlegroups.com <lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com>= on behalf of Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 30 March 2015 11:51 PM
To: lojban-beginners@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban-beginners] Pronunciation of "o"
 
Timothy, I understand you are Australian.  if the lin= k you provided is indeed how you pronounce "on", then it will pro= bably be confused with the lojban "a".  It's closer to how t= hat same website pronounces "north".  It should be basically= be around either here: or here or in-between (always rounded lips) whereas a hangs around ei= ther here or here or in-between always with lips unrounded.

             --gejyspa


On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 8:53 AM, Gleki Arxokuna = <gleki.i= s.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
You are right. Maybe this will also help you:

2015-03-30 15:03 GMT+03:00 Timothy Lawrence = <timothy.lawrence@connect.qut.edu.au>:
How is the letter "o" pronounced in Lojban? Is it the monophthong= "o", as in English "on"? Is it the d= iphthong "ow", as in English "own"? (It's hard to describe sounds in writing so I linked to spoken audio sampl= es)

I ask because the pronunciation guide of the "Level 0 Booklet&quo= t; seems to be indicating it is the latter, based on how I think "joke= " and "note" are pronounced: http://lojban.org/publications/level0/brochure-utf/phonol.html
However, from the same page: "Lojban has diphthongs as well, but these= are always represented by the two vowels that combine to form them."<= br>
I presumed the intent behind Lojban's phonetic spelling was that each lette= r represents a pure vowel sound and I noted that the pronunciation of "= ;Lojban" on its Wiki article seems to indicate the pronunciation might= be the former monophthong: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Jbo-lojban.ogg =

Thus I've been presuming "o" in Lojban would be pronounced as in = English "on" and thus "ou" would be the Lojbanic diphth= ong to represent "ow" as in English "own". Is this corr= ect?

Thanks,

Timothy


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