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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2015 12:39:53 +0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Question about tanru and lujvo invention
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2015-12-08 12:27 GMT+03:00 Rui Liu <edenish.fallen@gmail.com>:

> Sorry, by cultural accumulation I mean like every major culture would have
> poem and prose existing through the history, within which a lot of idioms
> and phrases were created. And that becomes part of the language as well
> (the most interesting part I think). I didn't expect lojban would reach the
> same level since it has only a history of less than a hundred years. But I
> wonder if it's flexible enough to reach it. Except for lujvo, is there
> other ways to create (long) phrases in lojban?
>

You probably mean idioms, known as set phrases, idiomatic expressions,
phrasal idioms.
In Lojban most of them consist of single words (not only lo lujvo, just any
word would do).

I'm not sure that a language is always include set phrases consisting of
several words since it's not known what a word is. A language may have a
long sentence packed into what looks like a single word (Amerindian,
Chukchi languages).


> My English might sound a bit strange I guess. Maybe it's better to do it
> in lojban? Something like klusumji (culture sum)? :)
>

Lojban has its own culture no matter how small it is.
It succeeds in discussing what has been successfully discussed in past and
fails to represent what users have failed to discuss in it.
Just like with any language.

Similarly to English or other languages. Some things, which are easily
expressed by fluent Lojban speakers would be extremely awkward to express
in English. I can't show you these examples in English by this very reason.


> On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 6:15:58 AM UTC, la gleki wrote:
>>
>>
>> 2015-12-08 2:13 GMT+03:00 Rui Liu <edenish...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> I just started my exploration in lojban, so I still have I lot of
>>> confusion, as well as some suspicion on whether this language can provide
>>> at least the same function we have in natural languages
>>>
>>
>> communication? :) Then it certainly happens since fluent speakers of
>> Lojban exist.
>>
>> , except for cultural accumulation. I don't know if there's a way to
>>> analyse one particular language's literary value (in which I'm most
>>> interested), but I will keep on my learning and hopefully can answer some
>>> of my own questions.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2015-12-08 12:27 GMT+03:00 Rui Liu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:edenish.fallen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">edenish.fallen@gmail.com</a=
>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l=
eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Sorry, by cultural accum=
ulation I mean like every major culture would have poem and prose existing =
through the history, within which a lot of idioms and phrases were created.=
 And that becomes part of the language as well (the most interesting part I=
 think). I didn&#39;t expect lojban would reach the same level since it has=
 only a history of less than a hundred years. But I wonder if it&#39;s flex=
ible enough to reach it. Except for lujvo, is there other ways to create (l=
ong) phrases in lojban?</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You probably =
mean idioms, known as set phrases, idiomatic expressions, phrasal idioms.<b=
r></div><div>In Lojban most of them consist of single words (not only lo lu=
jvo, just any word would do).</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m not sure tha=
t a language is always include set phrases consisting of several words sinc=
e it&#39;s not known what a word is. A language may have a long sentence pa=
cked into what looks like a single word (Amerindian, Chukchi languages).</d=
iv><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br=
></div><div>My English might sound a bit strange I guess. Maybe it&#39;s be=
tter to do it in lojban? Something like klusumji (culture sum)? :)<br></div=
></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Lojban has its own culture no matte=
r how small it is.=C2=A0</div><div>It succeeds in discussing what has been =
successfully discussed in past and fails to represent what users have faile=
d to discuss in it.</div><div>Just like with any language.</div><div><br></=
div><div>Similarly to English or other languages. Some things, which are ea=
sily expressed by fluent Lojban speakers would be extremely awkward to expr=
ess in English. I can&#39;t show you these examples in English by this very=
 reason.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,2=
04);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><b=
r>On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 6:15:58 AM UTC, la gleki wrote:<span clas=
s=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:=
solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
">2015-12-08 2:13 GMT+03:00 Rui Liu <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollo=
w">edenish...@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>I just sta=
rted my exploration in lojban, so I still have I lot of confusion, as well =
as some suspicion on whether this language can provide at least the same fu=
nction we have in natural languages</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>c=
ommunication? :) Then it certainly happens since fluent speakers of Lojban =
exist.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204=
);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>, except for cultural accu=
mulation. I don&#39;t know if there&#39;s a way to analyse one particular l=
anguage&#39;s literary value (in which I&#39;m most interested), but I will=
 keep on my learning and hopefully can answer some of my own questions.</di=
v><div></div></blockquote></div><br><br></div></div>
</blockquote></span></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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