Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 17:19:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Rui Liu <edenish.fallen@gmail.com>
To: lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Message-Id: <e677bba8-0741-4278-9180-d1038ffad6db@googlegroups.com>
In-Reply-To: <56670693.3060009@lojban.org>
References: <57fc2430-e84d-4efd-8eb5-2a5fde8fbf38@googlegroups.com>
 <CAO7bV+hm2iTbD7tinwWUenu=3nSjAt8YRnkmSPC+Gm=8C-uesA@mail.gmail.com>
 <585c322e-bfd9-4855-94fb-7ba0816c0250@googlegroups.com>
 <CAO7bV+h2zSXOgkKJ6i0FTjqdGO8-szD+x8MK4fqb43EiQRAEFA@mail.gmail.com>
 <qxTc1r00t56Cr6M01xTe1R>
 <56670693.3060009@lojban.org>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Question about tanru and lujvo invention
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
	boundary="----=_Part_2_135358140.1449710392256"
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -1.8
X-Spam_score_int: -17
X-Spam_bar: -

------=_Part_2_135358140.1449710392256
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
	boundary="----=_Part_3_616607076.1449710392257"

------=_Part_3_616607076.1449710392257
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Thank you for your reply very much!

I think I probably need to learn more about lojban and then come back to 
think about this question. But thank you for help me understand this.

Rui

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 4:34:29 PM UTC, lojbab wrote:
>
> On 12/8/2015 4:27 AM, Rui Liu wrote: 
> > Sorry, by cultural accumulation I mean like every major culture would 
> > have poem and prose existing through the history, within which a lot of 
> > idioms and phrases were created. And that becomes part of the language 
> > as well (the most interesting part I think). I didn't expect lojban 
> > would reach the same level since it has only a history of less than a 
> > hundred years. But I wonder if it's flexible enough to reach it. 
>
> I think that flexibility has already been demonstrated.  But it likely 
> is true that very few phrases have been used enough by different people 
> to be called "idioms". 
>
> On the other hand, any lujvo that has a particular meaning that is not 
> completely predictable from its components could be called idiomatic.  I 
> would claim that "malglico" and its near relatives are such idioms, 
> which have acquired some cultural load above and beyond its most basic 
> interpretation. 
>
> There exists poem and prose in Lojban, both translated works and 
> original ones.  Prose translations include Alice in Wonderland and 
> recently, The Wizard of Oz, but there were translations as far back as 
> 1990, including Saki's short story "The Open Window", and my own 
> translation of Suzanne Vega's song "Language".   Robin Powell has long 
> been writing a novel in Lojban, and within the last year or two there 
> has been original poetry and song in Lojban, most notably the several 
> songs written and published by djemynai. 
>
> Except 
> > for lujvo, is there other ways to create (long) phrases in lojban? 
>
> Many. lujvo are merely single words that represent a phrase.  The 
> grammar has a variety of phrase structures that can be used (and used 
> recursively) to make phrases of arbitrary length.  Probably the most 
> used of these are relative phrases/clauses and abstractions. 
>
> lojbab 
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

------=_Part_3_616607076.1449710392257
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you for your reply very much!<div><br></div><div>I t=
hink I probably need to learn more about lojban and then come back to think=
 about this question. But thank you for help me understand this.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Rui</div><div><div><br>On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 4:34:=
29 PM UTC, lojbab wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 12/=
8/2015 4:27 AM, Rui Liu wrote:
<br>&gt; Sorry, by cultural accumulation I mean like every major culture wo=
uld
<br>&gt; have poem and prose existing through the history, within which a l=
ot of
<br>&gt; idioms and phrases were created. And that becomes part of the lang=
uage
<br>&gt; as well (the most interesting part I think). I didn&#39;t expect l=
ojban
<br>&gt; would reach the same level since it has only a history of less tha=
n a
<br>&gt; hundred years. But I wonder if it&#39;s flexible enough to reach i=
t.
<br>
<br>I think that flexibility has already been demonstrated. =C2=A0But it li=
kely=20
<br>is true that very few phrases have been used enough by different people=
=20
<br>to be called &quot;idioms&quot;.
<br>
<br>On the other hand, any lujvo that has a particular meaning that is not=
=20
<br>completely predictable from its components could be called idiomatic. =
=C2=A0I=20
<br>would claim that &quot;malglico&quot; and its near relatives are such i=
dioms,=20
<br>which have acquired some cultural load above and beyond its most basic=
=20
<br>interpretation.
<br>
<br>There exists poem and prose in Lojban, both translated works and=20
<br>original ones. =C2=A0Prose translations include Alice in Wonderland and=
=20
<br>recently, The Wizard of Oz, but there were translations as far back as=
=20
<br>1990, including Saki&#39;s short story &quot;The Open Window&quot;, and=
 my own=20
<br>translation of Suzanne Vega&#39;s song &quot;Language&quot;. =C2=A0 Rob=
in Powell has long=20
<br>been writing a novel in Lojban, and within the last year or two there=
=20
<br>has been original poetry and song in Lojban, most notably the several=
=20
<br>songs written and published by djemynai.
<br>
<br>Except
<br>&gt; for lujvo, is there other ways to create (long) phrases in lojban?
<br>
<br>Many. lujvo are merely single words that represent a phrase. =C2=A0The=
=20
<br>grammar has a variety of phrase structures that can be used (and used=
=20
<br>recursively) to make phrases of arbitrary length. =C2=A0Probably the mo=
st=20
<br>used of these are relative phrases/clauses and abstractions.
<br>
<br>lojbab
<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;lojban&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsub=
scribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.=
com">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban">http:=
//groups.google.com/group/lojban</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

------=_Part_3_616607076.1449710392257--
------=_Part_2_135358140.1449710392256--