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[68.230.241.215]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p4si621439ywc.6.2015.12.16.15.08.14 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2015 15:08:14 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.215 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.241.215; Received: from eastrmimpo109 ([68.230.241.222]) by eastrmfepo103.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.05.15 201-2260-151-145-20131218) with ESMTP id <20151216230814.OCOA30397.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo109> for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:08:14 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.102] ([72.209.242.25]) by eastrmimpo109 with cox id uP8D1r00K0ZbUo801P8Dwi; Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:08:13 -0500 X-CT-Class: Clean X-CT-Score: 0.00 X-CT-RefID: str=0001.0A020206.5671EEDE.0008,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-CT-Spam: 0 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=FIzFMZUs c=1 sm=1 a=wUnt6a9YVw6vJyLyWfj5jg==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=6a4alTct9y2o7PogmtcA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=wUnt6a9YVw6vJyLyWfj5jg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Subject: Re: [lojban] How would I say ... To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. Message-ID: <5671EEDD.6040109@lojban.org> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2015 18:08:13 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.241.215 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mailfrom=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Note: SpamAssassin invocation failed On 12/16/2015 11:35 AM, Frank Martinez wrote: > "Today, I will be a husband my wife falls in love with"? Unfortunately that statement, in English, is highly ambiguous with respect to things that are important to translation into Lojban. On the surface, the usage "I will be ... " usually is an indication of intention, and in particular that the speaker intends to actively do something to achieve what is intended. But you could look down the list of attitudes in selma'o UI to get a sense of several other possible meanings. It could be a prediction or an expectation. Rather than committing the speaker to action (which might use the attitudinal for effort?), it might be a more passive desire. What does the speaker think will happen during the 24 hours constituting (or less, since today has already begun when someone invokes it)? Is "X falls in love with Y" a singular achievement event, or is it a process. Or is being "in love" a state of existence, and "falling in love" is merely the initiation of that state. It might be the more passive statement that you mean to be loveable today, (since in fact you have no control over how your wife's reaction to anything you do - and in most English usage, even your wife has no control over whether she "falls in love", since the "falling" implies a change of state that was NOT a matter of will). At the very least, there are two predications (wife falls in love with Y) and (I am/become? a?/the Y), and you need to figure out what "today" has to do with each predication and you need to figure out what "I will" means with respect to each predication. lojbab -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.