Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gusni.kantu@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22a;
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAO7bV+iKmbacrqCjW78dfvWgFCTPx=fbSAXsCS_ngYYhVwSEqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7bV+hVbs+gczhBzXaSg5k=qiO38g0pZqiZYdruWokVQ7ep6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <5673EFF1.60709@gmail.com> <CAO7bV+iKmbacrqCjW78dfvWgFCTPx=fbSAXsCS_ngYYhVwSEqQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 08:24:31 +0000
Message-ID: <CAO1AUJNZDz_09Hqir2JfQJj6SMXO22xt9ZoA8_FNKpBvYwRg=A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: [Llg-members] A story of "Search %s" string in Vivaldi browser
To: llg-members@lojban.org, lojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -1.7
X-Spam_score_int: -16
X-Spam_bar: -

2015-12-20 7:09 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
>
>
> 2015-12-18 14:37 GMT+03:00 Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> On 18/12/2015 09:23, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
>>>
>>> When I was translating Vivaldi browser interface to Lojban I aimed at t=
he
>>> full translation of 100% of strings, which ended in Lojban being added =
to
>>> Vivaldi beta version while Esperanto and Ido got removed due to incompl=
ete
>>> translations.
>>>
>>> However, I faced one string that I couldn't unambiguously translate. Th=
e
>>> string is
>>> "Search" and the browser uses that to form a placeholder in the browser
>>> search inputbox to form "Search Google", "Search Bing" and similar.
>>>
>>> And what I found is that Lojban presents no solutions.
>>> 1. I used {sisku sepi'o la'oi} =3D> {sisku sepi'o la'oi Google}. The
>>> experimental cmavo {la'oi} quotes one word that must not contain spaces=
 of
>>> pauses inside. Hence, its immediate drawback. Users can add a search en=
gine
>>> leading to {sisku sepi'o la'oi Lojban MediaWiki} where "MediaWiki" hang=
s in
>>> space.
>>> 2. Neither {la'o zoi.XXX.zoi} method is fine. A search engine named
>>> ".zoi" leads to {la'o zoi..zoi.zoi} quoting an empty string and the las=
t
>>> ".zoi" hangs in space. The browser is not able to change "zoi" separato=
rs on
>>> the fly.
>>> 3. However, the solution in English is unambiguous. It's a user interfa=
ce
>>> widget, kinda {lu ... li'u} quoted text.
>>>
>>> widget (inputbox) boundaries are analogous to this {lu ... li'u}.
>>>
>>> This text can't refer to anything outside it, it's a thing in itself bu=
t
>>> this thing can be parsed and used by external mechanisms.
>>>
>>> "Search Lojban MediaWiki" means that after "Search " we have an arbitra=
ry
>>> plain text in an unknown language until End Of Feed is reached.
>>>
>>> I imagine Lojban community could extend {la} to be able to catch
>>> non-Lojban text until the end of file/feed is reached.
>>>
>>> But in the current conditions I see it as a drawback of the language.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe this should be discussed on the BPFK mailing list rather than here=
.
>
>
> Missed that sentence.
> Yes and no.
>
> Technically Lojban has a solution (la'o zoi ... zoi with changing delimit=
ers
> when needed).
> But then comes a part not dependent on the language.
> I initially posted a message about my translation
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/da6VUtMDDLE/discussion
>
> saying "Feedback is more than welcomed."
>
> However, no such feedback has ever been provided in the mailing list.
>
> If someone disagrees with the localization or wants to suggest something
> the correct algorithm is
> TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK
>
> like Ilmen just did.
>
> The same applies to other projects where I'm asking for help. If a help o=
r
> feedback is requested then it's needed!
> Don't hesitate to reply to such requests!
>

I'm sorry for not providing feedback there, but it's because the
problem of {la'oi} in the search box is too indifferent for me to post
a message. The problem became however important after I found your
intolerance of my experimental parsers: it was a turning point that
you became my eternal enemy. It is lucky of you to be my enemy because
I will make more effort than before to report your faults.

Anyway, the current topic is out of subject of LLG meeting. I suggest
continuing it on the main list if necessary.


> By the way I have already implemented Ilmen's proposal with {ti} + {fa'o}=
.
> It should come to Vivaldi technical releases in a few weeks. Just feel fr=
ee
> to update it regularly.
>
>>
>> If the string to be translated is of the form "... %s ..." (with %s
>> standing for the name of the search engine), then I think something like
>> {la'o cirlrbri. %s .cirlrbri} does pretty good (with some separator word
>> that'd be very unlikely to clash with the name of the browser, unless th=
is
>> latter one is chosen intentionally to clash with the separator).
>>
>> Another option could be using something like =C2=AB sisku se pi'o lo se =
cmene
>> be ti =E2=86=92 fa'o %s =C2=BB or =C2=AB sisku se pi'o lo se cmene be lo=
 se lidne be dei fa'o
>> %s =C2=BB.
>>
>> =E2=80=94Ilmen.
>>


I prefer =C2=AB sisku se pi'o lo se cmene be lo se lidne be dei fa'o %s =C2=
=BB
among Ilmen's solutions. Gleki may be misunderstanding {dei} of it if
he think it contains a problem. However,
=C2=AB sisku fa'o %s =C2=BB
is my best preference from a point of view of shortness.

mu'o mi'e la guskant

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.