Received: from mail-pf0-f187.google.com ([209.85.192.187]:33142) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1aAbeL-00023g-1t for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 02:55:44 -0800 Received: by mail-pf0-f187.google.com with SMTP id o64sf28621375pfb.0 for ; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 02:55:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=l2mXgzLkJXgLTfz4XEgEge2/ZPr2PnImEobQzv6nLd4=; b=iAlCyFwwzYQZqJpMTPTNiTLnblbyaIkZziv2hBiYUufKYV5v4Fd4uTbXnfuWnv7p10 Hf4Bxs6SStbTA/CylP4dFXRbpgRCdHAomFasLN8mHY2a+lvwYgk2jb8j0L9eTBjLqRHN iYYQCTKKqRtEDuhYkuiq8itXcjAyDeuT0Ms4EVEtkNcVur78WdTXKVYr7Khwk3Jx5Kti KQj51XpcmtIoRF4EjdKBtfEim7Tpbbx6ZJWPvCWASYodaBhqnJTJxBbcWn2hJN18B9D1 Neki4HWCynuoByZW8k7JrwuI2JlBbD9bjf4n9ufV1nVsr51hD05CuBNRlkRNVUkfPZGW Frdw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=l2mXgzLkJXgLTfz4XEgEge2/ZPr2PnImEobQzv6nLd4=; b=sCmJpA/B0mAZpq9azTt2k+68uYkkYfQn8VD/uqwtwNtjAci7RsRvnZjxlIytF0+47T uF1ogQcL7zA7tixqKRmmWGDjPRa4yrxRXit7br1JENGvFVslU7/fHvUJX9Jn1pu0vR12 lksKbOakzQxU0GjeDgRqbPMrapLHAIYn4a8jXuulWiInjPzyvZoE2YO9Uh9bTev3G120 o2o+nCp2sfg+KxZl6fN7zPvwzMgbRHHSc76L6dcsu/jcSrjEkUwdxNvch7CPh/kZo0nq fmij2zbO1J8wpQD1B0iA9jphcvDzqPjNyJOAvdXYiJGcoyR+5Eaw9jrgkY90W+Bp3keb 8xAA== X-Received: by 10.140.32.11 with SMTP id g11mr166706qgg.4.1450608931242; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 02:55:31 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.23.36 with SMTP id 33ls2377446qgo.13.gmail; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 02:55:30 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.44.68 with SMTP id f62mr164920qga.12.1450608930651; Sun, 20 Dec 2015 02:55:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2015 02:55:30 -0800 (PST) From: jacfold.guskant@gmail.com To: lojban Message-Id: <63d48970-5e61-4e4e-b4f0-aa60b5561c89@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: References: <5673EFF1.60709@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: [Llg-members] A story of "Search %s" string in Vivaldi browser MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_4637_784339138.1450608930167" X-Original-Sender: jacfold.guskant@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - ------=_Part_4637_784339138.1450608930167 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4638_1407054738.1450608930167" ------=_Part_4638_1407054738.1450608930167 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le dimanche 20 d=C3=A9cembre 2015 10:13:29 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : > > > > 2015-12-20 12:32 GMT+03:00 guskant >: > >> >> >> Le dimanche 20 d=C3=A9cembre 2015 08:57:23 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : >>> >>> >>> =20 >>> >> I'm intolerant to everything beyond CLL. Even my unofficial parsers are= =20 >>> merely a playtoy, a tool to study Lojban, not to break it. >>> Changing Lojban is breaking its community which already happened once i= n=20 >>> 2004. >>> >>> It's a pity that the current Lojban is probably irreversibly=20 >>> incompatible with CLL, I only have to accept that and perceive as if th= e=20 >>> language is starting from scratch. But I of course can't accept if this= is=20 >>> going to happen on a regular basis. That's why my intolerance over even= =20 >>> more backward incompatible changes. >>> >>> >> Teaching {la'oi} in your course and abusing a statement in NU clause:=20 >> what a double standard of you! It's you who broke so-called Lojbanistan = by=20 >> expelling me.=20 >> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/The_egocentrism_of_a_Lojban_community >> > > 1. I didn't expel you. I'm just documenting what people are using. As I= =20 > said I perceive the situation as starting the language from scratch. But= =20 > when some person says "let's drop this usage" it's breaking communication= .=20 > You did. See the proof in the page of URL above. =20 > 2. Am I supposed not to teach {la'oi}? Then how one would understand what= =20 > this {la'oi} means? > Simply teach that it's not Lojban. Even doing it, the learner will find it= =20 in jbovlaste, and understand the usage. =20 > 3. People are using {la'oi}. I don't understand how {la'oi} breaks CLL.= =20 > This particle is backward compatible. What problems are you having with i= t?=20 > I can only see that for you {la'oi} is not neutral towards Polynesian=20 > languages. But we already know that Lojban is not neutral. Why are you=20 > accusing me of teaching it? The little blame gets all the blame? The same= =20 > as before. If one does nothing 'ey can't be blaimed. Is this what is=20 > desired? > It breaks CLL 1.1 by forcing learners cultural non-neutrality. As for the= =20 correctness of CLL, use bpfk list: https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bpfk-list/5_SDz58KJAw/discussion =20 > 4. I don't understand what does mean "abusing a statement in NU clause"?= =20 > Using {nu} where {du'u} is to be used? It's from xorxe's Alice. If there = is=20 > some underformalization going on I don't have time to resolve it when=20 > everything is working anyways. > > No, I simply meant syntactic form "NU statement (KEI)", which require some= =20 KEI non-elidible more than camxes. You abused also my parser parses=20 differently from camxes as follows: ([{ro BOI} {mo } KU] VAU)=20 ([{ mo KU} {cu VAU}] IAU)=20 ([{ mo KU} {ge GIhI}] IAU)=20 You did then said "ja'o lo guskanbau cu banzu frica lo jbobau", which=20 implies that you expelled me from so-called Lojbanistan. You didn't mention that your parser for your course "camxes-exp" parses=20 cmevla as tanru unit: it is already backward incompatible to camxes. It is= =20 another evidence of your double standard. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_4638_1407054738.1450608930167 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Le dimanche 20 d=C3=A9cembre 2015 10:13:29 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9cr= it=C2=A0:

=

2015-12-20 12:32 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni...@gmail.com>:

Le dimanche 20 d=C3=A9cembre 2015 08:57:23 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit=C2= =A0:

<= div>
=C2=A0
<= div>
I'm intolerant to everything beyond CLL. Even my un= official parsers are merely a playtoy, a tool to study Lojban, not to break= it.
Changing Lojban is breaking its community which already happ= ened once in 2004.

It's a pity that the curren= t Lojban is probably irreversibly incompatible with CLL, I only have to acc= ept that and perceive as if the language is starting from scratch. But I of= course can't accept if this is going to happen on a regular basis. Tha= t's why my intolerance over even more backward incompatible changes.


Teaching {la'oi} in your course and abusing a statement in NU cla= use: what a double standard of you! It's you who broke so-called Lojban= istan by expelling me.=C2=A0

1. I didn't expel you. I'm = just documenting what people are using. As I said I perceive the situation = as starting the language from scratch. But when some person says "let&= #39;s drop this usage" it's breaking communication.=C2=A0

You did. See the proof in t= he page of URL above.
=C2=A0
2. Am I= supposed not to teach {la'oi}? Then how one would understand what this= {la'oi} means?

Simply teach that it's not Lojban. Even doing it, the learner will fin= d it in jbovlaste, and understand the usage.
=C2=A0
3. People are using {la'oi}. I don't understand how= {la'oi} breaks CLL. This particle is backward compatible. What problem= s are you having with it? I can only see that for you {la'oi} is not ne= utral towards Polynesian languages. But we already know that Lojban is not = neutral. Why are you accusing me of teaching it? The little blame gets all = the blame? The same as before. If one does nothing 'ey can't be bla= imed. Is this what is desired?
It breaks CLL 1.1 by forcing learners cultural non-neutrality. = As for the correctness of CLL, use bpfk list:
https://groups.goog= le.com/d/topic/bpfk-list/5_SDz58KJAw/discussion

=C2=A0
4. I don't understand what does m= ean "abusing a statement in NU clause"? Using {nu} where {du'= u} is to be used? It's from xorxe's Alice. If there is some underfo= rmalization going on I don't have time to resolve it when everything is= working anyways.


No, I simply meant syntactic form "NU statement (KEI= )", which require some KEI non-elidible more than camxes. You abused a= lso my parser parses differently from camxes as follows:
([{ro BOI} {mo <ge mo (=C2=B9gi mo=C2=B9) GIhI>} KU] VAU)= =C2=A0

([{<ro BOI> mo KU} {cu <ge mo (=C2= =B9gi mo=C2=B9) GIhI> VAU}] IAU)=C2=A0

([{<r= o BOI> mo KU} {ge <cu (=C2=B9mo VAU=C2=B9)> <gi (=C2=B9CU [mo V= AU]=C2=B9)> GIhI}] IAU)=C2=A0

= You did then said "ja'o lo=C2=A0guskanbau
<= /span>
You didn't mention that your = parser for your course "camxes-exp" parses cmevla as tanru unit: = it is already backward incompatible to camxes. It is another evidence of yo= ur double standard.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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