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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:26:51 +0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] {cukta} as a case study for why the dictionary needs
 clearer, more detailed entries
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2016-01-21 12:24 GMT+03:00 Andrew <summerfallsaway@gmail.com>:

> la gleki:
> > ...start your own Lojban dictionary in your own dialect of English...
>
> I don't really have a problem with the dialect. I'm saying there's simply
> not enough information.
>

By dialect I meant the idiolect used by the authors of gimste/ma'oste.


>
> la stela:
> > .i nandu fa lo nu valsi smuni galfi .i ku'i frili fa lo nu finti lo cnino
>
> I don't think we necessarily need to change the *meaning* of existing
> words, we just need to revise or rewrite the dictionary entries so that the
> meaning is clearer. The meaning of the gismu are probably fine, as far as I
> know. The way we *explain* the meaning needs work.
>
> Specifically, I'd like to see an explanation of the meaning and possible
> usage notes for all the sumti of each brivla.
>

Feel free to fork this project: https://mw.lojban.org/papri/L17-B


> It's not enough to know just the main gloss word for a brivla: One must
> also understand what would be appropriate and what would be inappropriate
> to use as the x1 or x2 or x3... of a given brivla.
>
> When necessary, there should also be notes about the ways a brivla differs
> from its English gloss word. For example, I have heard some (I think it
> might have been la gleki?) suggest that "picture" is an insufficient
> explanation for the concept of {pixra}, because in English, "picture"
> connotes a 2D image, while {pixra} could work just as well for 3D objects.
>
> la selpa'i:
> > At least now, compared to two
> years ago, BPFK has the official backing of LLG to undertake such a
> thing, so we really only need to ... just do it.
>
> What would it take to get this started? Is there anything I could do to
> help?
>
> I think this is important enough to start work as soon as possible -- but
> it doesn't have to be done all at once. We could just have regular
> discussions in IRC, or here in the mailing list, about how best to explain
> the semantics of a single valsi.
>
> Or however you think is best.
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 11:39:31 AM UTC-8, la stela selckiku
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 8:03 AM, selpahi <sel...@gmx.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > Many of us hope that work on the gismu list will pick up again at some
>> > point, but nobody knows when that will be. At least now, compared to
>> two
>> > years ago, BPFK has the official backing of LLG to undertake such a
>> thing,
>> > so we really only need to ... just do it.
>>
>> .i gasnu ma sa'e .i va'i ma tadji lo nuntu'i
>>
>> .i nandu fa lo nu valsi smuni galfi .i ku'i frili fa lo nu finti lo
>> cnino .i .e'u pa moi se zukte fa lo nu finti lo zi'evla poi lo jai se
>> djica cu smuni ke'a .i mu'a finti zo fenkire noi ca'e ru'e .ivla me'o
>> fa bu lo remna ku'o je zo fenkinu noi ca'e ru'e .ivla me'o fa bu lo
>> fasnu .i ka'e co'a pilno lo ve tugni se smuni .i ji'a ka'e zmadu frili
>> fa lo nu tavla fi lo smuni be lo laldo poi gismu .i mu'a pau cu'i
>> smuni zo fenki .ei fa lo ka fenkinu ji fenkire
>>
>> .i .au ru'e lo gimste cu binxo lo racli cnino .i .au sai pilno lo ji'a
>> drata be lo laldo poi jbogi'u
>>
>> .i pe'i pe'i pei filmau fa lo da'i nu finti lo cnino .i mi na djica lo
>> bebna nu xusra lo du'u nandu fa lo nu pante .i ro roi frili fa lo nu
>> pante .i ku'i mleca pante tcini vau la'a .a'o .i je da'i zdile mi fa
>> lo nu lo cnino co'a jbovla
>>
>> mi'e la stela selckiku
>> mu'o lo jbobyjbopre
>> fa'o
>>
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--047d7b5d3e644421100529d4b6ab
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2016-01-21 12:24 GMT+03:00 Andrew <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:summerfallsaway@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">summerfallsaway@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-=
left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">la gleki:<br>&gt; ...st=
art your own Lojban dictionary in your own dialect of English...<br><br>I d=
on&#39;t really have a problem with the dialect.  I&#39;m saying there&#39;=
s simply not enough information.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
By dialect I meant the idiolect used by the authors of gimste/ma&#39;oste.<=
/div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bor=
der-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br>la stela:<span =
class=3D""><br>&gt; .i nandu fa lo nu valsi smuni galfi .i ku&#39;i frili f=
a lo nu finti lo
cnino<br><br></span>I don&#39;t think we necessarily need to change the *me=
aning* of existing words, we just need to revise or rewrite the dictionary =
entries so that the meaning is clearer. The meaning of the gismu are probab=
ly fine, as far as I know. The way we *explain* the meaning needs work.<br>=
<br>Specifically, I&#39;d like to see an explanation of the meaning and pos=
sible usage notes for all the sumti of each brivla.</div></blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div>Feel free to fork this project: <a href=3D"https://mw.lojban=
.org/papri/L17-B">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/L17-B</a></div><div>=C2=A0</d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"> It&#39;s not enough to know just the =
main gloss word for a brivla: One must also understand what would be approp=
riate and what would be inappropriate to use as the x1 or x2 or x3... of a =
given brivla.<br><br>When necessary, there should also be notes about the w=
ays a brivla differs from its English gloss word. For example, I have heard=
 some (I think it might have been la gleki?) suggest that &quot;picture&quo=
t; is an insufficient explanation for the concept of {pixra}, because in En=
glish, &quot;picture&quot; connotes a 2D image, while {pixra} could work ju=
st as well for 3D objects.<br><br>la selpa&#39;i:<span class=3D""><br>&gt; =
At least now, compared to two=20
<br>years ago, BPFK has the official backing of LLG to undertake such a=20
<br>thing, so we really only need to ... just do it.
<br><br></span>What would it take to get this started? Is there anything I =
could do to help?<br><br>I think this is important enough to start work as =
soon as possible -- but it doesn&#39;t have to be done all at once. We coul=
d just have regular discussions in IRC, or here in the mailing list, about =
how best to explain the semantics of a single valsi.<br><br>Or however you =
think is best.<br><br><br>On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 at 11:39:31 AM UTC=
-8, la stela selckiku wrote:<div><div class=3D"h5"><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-le=
ft-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">On Wed,=
 Jan 20, 2016 at 8:03 AM, selpahi &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow">sel...@gmx.de</a>=
&gt; wrote:
<br>&gt;
<br>&gt; Many of us hope that work on the gismu list will pick up again at =
some
<br>&gt; point, but nobody knows when that will be. At least now, compared =
to two
<br>&gt; years ago, BPFK has the official backing of LLG to undertake such =
a thing,
<br>&gt; so we really only need to ... just do it.
<br>
<br>.i gasnu ma sa&#39;e .i va&#39;i ma tadji lo nuntu&#39;i
<br>
<br>.i nandu fa lo nu valsi smuni galfi .i ku&#39;i frili fa lo nu finti lo
<br>cnino .i .e&#39;u pa moi se zukte fa lo nu finti lo zi&#39;evla poi lo =
jai se
<br>djica cu smuni ke&#39;a .i mu&#39;a finti zo fenkire noi ca&#39;e ru=
9;e .ivla me&#39;o
<br>fa bu lo remna ku&#39;o je zo fenkinu noi ca&#39;e ru&#39;e .ivla me=
9;o fa bu lo
<br>fasnu .i ka&#39;e co&#39;a pilno lo ve tugni se smuni .i ji&#39;a ka=
9;e zmadu frili
<br>fa lo nu tavla fi lo smuni be lo laldo poi gismu .i mu&#39;a pau cu&#39=
;i
<br>smuni zo fenki .ei fa lo ka fenkinu ji fenkire
<br>
<br>.i .au ru&#39;e lo gimste cu binxo lo racli cnino .i .au sai pilno lo j=
i&#39;a
<br>drata be lo laldo poi jbogi&#39;u
<br>
<br>.i pe&#39;i pe&#39;i pei filmau fa lo da&#39;i nu finti lo cnino .i mi =
na djica lo
<br>bebna nu xusra lo du&#39;u nandu fa lo nu pante .i ro roi frili fa lo n=
u
<br>pante .i ku&#39;i mleca pante tcini vau la&#39;a .a&#39;o .i je da&#39;=
i zdile mi fa
<br>lo nu lo cnino co&#39;a jbovla
<br>
<br>mi&#39;e la stela selckiku
<br>mu&#39;o lo jbobyjbopre
<br>fa&#39;o
<br></blockquote></div></div></div><div class=3D""><div class=3D"h5">

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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