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[2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id yt6si225015igb.0.2016.01.26.11.36.27 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b; Received: by mail-oi0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id k206so113006395oia.1 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.202.227.136 with SMTP id a130mr18591863oih.8.1453836987419; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:36:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.58.3 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:35:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: MorphemeAddict Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 13:35:18 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFtsb2piYW5dIMKrcG8ndcK7ICYgbWFsZ2xpY28=?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114075ea325231052a41cdab X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - --001a114075ea325231052a41cdab Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (Playing with the ideas/words:) Lojban really "wants" to be verby, English is innately very nouny, and as English speakers use Lojban, it seems to get progressively nounier and nounier. Lojban really "wants" to verb, English innately nouns a lot, and as English speakers Lojban, Lojban seems to progressively noun more and more. stevo On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Ian Johnson wrote= : > It's the old noun-verb problem: {la teris po'u lo tirxu} doesn't actually > add any real information that {la teris noi tirxu} doesn't. This comes up > again and again: Lojban really "wants" to be verby, English is innately > very nouny, and as English speakers use Lojban, it seems to get > progressively nounier and nounier. > > mi'e la latro'a mu'o > > On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Bruno Panasiewicz > wrote: > >> co=E1=BB=8B ro do >> I've noticed that ga'a mi many uses of =C2=ABpo'u=C2=BB are very malglic= o-ish; sa'e >> mu'a, =C2=ABla teris. po'u lo tirxu cu vitke zi'o le barda tcadu=C2=BB s= eems to have >> words are calqued, one by one, i.e. >> >>> *=E2=80=8B=C2=AB*la teris.=C2=BB =E2=80=93 *Terry* >>> >> >> =C2=AB=E2=80=8Bpo'u=C2=BB =E2=80=93 *who is* >>> >>> =E2=80=8B('well, that probably is restrictive!' =E2=80=93 see *3*)=E2= =80=8B >>> >> =E2=80=8B=C2=ABlo tirxu=C2=BB =E2=80=93 *a tiger*=E2=80=8B (and it would= be worse, pe'i, if it were =C2=ABle=C2=BB) >>> >> =E2=80=8BSame thing =E2=80=8Bin the article of the .=C5=ADitki, *Profani= ty* *=C2=B01* (that's >> where I actually noticed it all): >> >>> You may also make use of >>> =E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80=8B >>> do po'u >>> =E2=80=8B=C2=BB=E2=80=8B >>> to start a phrase meaning *You bastard, bitch*, etc. The particle >>> =E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80=8B >>> po'u >>> =E2=80=8B=C2=BB=E2=80=8B >>> roughly translates to >>> =E2=80=8B *=E2=80=8B* >>> *the*, as in >>> *=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BSonic the Hedgehog*. >> >> pe'i, there =E2=80=8Bare three issues in here: >> *1*. Overusing =C2=ABdu=C2=BB (and =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B du=C2=BB here), whe= re it's not needed, just >> like in English with *be*; >> *2*. Using =C2=ABpo'u=C2=BB, where it's totally superfluous and even lon= ger (!) =E2=80=93 >> we think of Terry, some tiger, and assert they're the same: that doesn't >> really make sense!; >> *3*. Using a restrictive relative/identity clause. >> =E2=80=8BAs for *3*, if we say =C2=ABla teris.=C2=BB, then we know, whic= h Terry it is by >> referring by his name, because we're telling the story!=E2=80=93 so it d= eserves the >> use of =C2=ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB. Similarly, =C2=ABdo no=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB wo= uld fit in here, and if I ever start >> saying =C2=ABle broda=C2=BB (and not =C2=ABlo broda=C2=BB, because then = I'd use =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB to >> clarify), I'd continue with =C2=ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB as well. >> ta'o, the non-CLL version of that story gets it right, saying =C2=ABla .= teris. >> no=E1=BB=8B tigra=C2=BB. >> What do you think? >> le'o cu'i >> mi'e la .uakci mu'o >> >> *=C2=B01* https://mw.lojban.org/papri/profanity >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a114075ea325231052a41cdab Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(Playing with the ideas/words:)

Lojban reall= y "wants" to be verby, English is innately very nouny, and as Eng= lish speakers use Lojban, it seems to get progressively nounier and nounier= .

Lojban really "wants" to verb, English i= nnately nouns a lot, and as English speakers Lojban, Lojban seems to progre= ssively noun more and more.=C2=A0

stevo=C2=A0

On Tue, J= an 26, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
It'= ;s the old noun-verb problem: {la teris po'u lo tirxu} doesn't actu= ally add any real information that {la teris noi tirxu} doesn't. This c= omes up again and again: Lojban really "wants" to be verby, Engli= sh is innately very nouny, and as English speakers use Lojban, it seems to = get progressively nounier and nounier.

mi'e la latro'a= mu'o

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:25 PM, = Bruno Panasiewicz <ciuak.prog@gmail.com> wrote:
co=E1=BB=8B ro do
I'= ve noticed that ga'a mi many uses of =C2=ABpo'u=C2=BB are very malg= lico-ish;=C2=A0sa'e mu'a, =C2=ABla teris. po'u lo tirxu cu vitk= e zi'o le barda tcadu=C2=BB seems to have words are calqued, one by one= , i.e.
=E2= =80=8B=C2=ABla teris.=C2=BB =E2=80=93 Terry
=C2=A0
=C2=AB=E2=80=8B= po'u=C2=BB =E2=80=93 who is
=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B('well, that probably is restrictive!' =E2= =80=93 see 3)=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=C2=ABlo tirxu=C2=BB =E2=80=93 a t= iger=E2=80=8B (and it would be worse, pe'i, if it were =C2=ABle=C2= =BB)
=E2=80= =8BSame thing =E2=80=8Bin the article of the .=C5=ADitki, Profanity= =C2=A0=C2=B01=C2=A0(that's where I actually noticed it all):
You may also= make use of
=E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80= =8B
do po'u
=E2=80=8B=C2=BB= =E2=80=8B
to start a phrase meaning You bastard, bitch, etc. T= he particle
=E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80=8B=
po'u
=E2=80=8B=C2=BB=E2=80= =8B
roughly translates to
=E2= =80=8B =E2=80=8B
the, as in
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
Sonic the Hedgehog.
pe'i, there =E2=80=8B= are three issues in here:
1. Overusing =C2=ABdu=C2=BB (and =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B du=C2=BB he= re), where it's not needed, just like in English with be;
<= /div>
2. Using =C2=ABpo&#= 39;u=C2=BB, where it's totally superfluous and even longer (!) =E2=80= =93 we think of Terry, some tiger, and assert they're the same: that do= esn't really make sense!;
3. Using a restrictive relative/identity clause.
=E2=80=8BAs for 3, if we say =C2=ABla= teris.=C2=BB, then we know, which Terry it is by referring by his name, be= cause we're telling the story!=E2=80=93 so it deserves the use of =C2= =ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB. Similarly, =C2=ABdo no=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB would fit in he= re, and if I ever start saying =C2=ABle broda=C2=BB (and not =C2=ABlo broda= =C2=BB, because then I'd use =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB to clarify), I'= ;d continue with =C2=ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB as well.
ta'o, the non-CLL version of that story gets it right, saying =C2= =ABla .teris. no=E1=BB=8B tigra=C2=BB.
What do= you think?
le'o c= u'i
mi'= e la .uakci mu'o

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