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[2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id am7si133032lbc.0.2016.01.26.11.42.00 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ciuak.prog@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c07::231 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c07::231; Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id 17so112263667lfz.1 for ; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:42:00 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.15.29 with SMTP id e29mr9849358lfi.85.1453837320222; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.159.36 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:42:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2016 20:42:00 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFtsb2piYW5dIMKrcG8ndcK7ICYgbWFsZ2xpY28=?= From: Bruno Panasiewicz To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113f16da088104052a41e1ff X-Original-Sender: ciuak.prog@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ciuak.prog@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c07::231 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ciuak.prog@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.2 X-Spam_score_int: 2 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: coi la stevo > *​Lojban really "wants" to verb, English innately nouns a lot, and as > English speakers Lojban, Lojban seems to progressively noun more and > more. ​* *Lojban style:* That which Lojbans-type-of-languages, muchs in wanting to verb. And that which Englishes-type-of-languages, properties in muching in nouning. That which Lojbans-type-of-languages, constants in mores-type-of-becomes in nouning, results. mi'e la .uakci mu'o [...] Content analysis details: (0.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [74.125.82.59 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (ciuak.prog[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -0.0 BAYES_20 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 5 to 20% [score: 0.1682] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different --001a113f16da088104052a41e1ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable coi la stevo > *=E2=80=8BLojban really "wants" to verb, English innately nouns a lot, an= d as > English speakers Lojban, Lojban seems to progressively noun more and > more. =E2=80=8B* *Lojban style:* That which Lojbans-type-of-languages, muchs in wanting to verb. And that which Englishes-type-of-languages, properties in muching in nouning. That which Lojbans-type-of-languages, constants in mores-type-of-becomes in nouning, results. mi'e la .uakci mu'o On 26 January 2016 at 20:35, MorphemeAddict wrote: > (Playing with the ideas/words:) > > Lojban really "wants" to be verby, English is innately very nouny, and as > English speakers use Lojban, it seems to get progressively nounier and > nounier. > > Lojban really "wants" to verb, English innately nouns a lot, and as > English speakers Lojban, Lojban seems to progressively noun more and more= . > > stevo > > On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > >> It's the old noun-verb problem: {la teris po'u lo tirxu} doesn't actuall= y >> add any real information that {la teris noi tirxu} doesn't. This comes u= p >> again and again: Lojban really "wants" to be verby, English is innately >> very nouny, and as English speakers use Lojban, it seems to get >> progressively nounier and nounier. >> >> mi'e la latro'a mu'o >> >> On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Bruno Panasiewicz >> wrote: >> >>> co=E1=BB=8B ro do >>> I've noticed that ga'a mi many uses of =C2=ABpo'u=C2=BB are very >>> malglico-ish; sa'e mu'a, =C2=ABla teris. po'u lo tirxu cu vitke zi'o le= barda >>> tcadu=C2=BB seems to have words are calqued, one by one, i.e. >>> >>>> *=E2=80=8B=C2=AB*la teris.=C2=BB =E2=80=93 *Terry* >>>> >>> >>> =C2=AB=E2=80=8Bpo'u=C2=BB =E2=80=93 *who is* >>>> >>>> =E2=80=8B('well, that probably is restrictive!' =E2=80=93 see *3*)=E2= =80=8B >>>> >>> =E2=80=8B=C2=ABlo tirxu=C2=BB =E2=80=93 *a tiger*=E2=80=8B (and it woul= d be worse, pe'i, if it were =C2=ABle=C2=BB) >>>> >>> =E2=80=8BSame thing =E2=80=8Bin the article of the .=C5=ADitki, *Profan= ity* *=C2=B01* (that's >>> where I actually noticed it all): >>> >>>> You may also make use of >>>> =E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80=8B >>>> do po'u >>>> =E2=80=8B=C2=BB=E2=80=8B >>>> to start a phrase meaning *You bastard, bitch*, etc. The particle >>>> =E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80=8B >>>> po'u >>>> =E2=80=8B=C2=BB=E2=80=8B >>>> roughly translates to >>>> =E2=80=8B *=E2=80=8B* >>>> *the*, as in >>>> *=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BSonic the Hedgehog*. >>> >>> pe'i, there =E2=80=8Bare three issues in here: >>> *1*. Overusing =C2=ABdu=C2=BB (and =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B du=C2=BB here), wh= ere it's not needed, just >>> like in English with *be*; >>> *2*. Using =C2=ABpo'u=C2=BB, where it's totally superfluous and even lo= nger (!) =E2=80=93 >>> we think of Terry, some tiger, and assert they're the same: that doesn'= t >>> really make sense!; >>> *3*. Using a restrictive relative/identity clause. >>> =E2=80=8BAs for *3*, if we say =C2=ABla teris.=C2=BB, then we know, whi= ch Terry it is by >>> referring by his name, because we're telling the story!=E2=80=93 so it = deserves the >>> use of =C2=ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB. Similarly, =C2=ABdo no=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB w= ould fit in here, and if I ever start >>> saying =C2=ABle broda=C2=BB (and not =C2=ABlo broda=C2=BB, because then= I'd use =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB to >>> clarify), I'd continue with =C2=ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB as well. >>> ta'o, the non-CLL version of that story gets it right, saying =C2=ABla >>> .teris. no=E1=BB=8B tigra=C2=BB. >>> What do you think? >>> le'o cu'i >>> mi'e la .uakci mu'o >>> >>> *=C2=B01* https://mw.lojban.org/papri/profanity >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a113f16da088104052a41e1ff Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
coi la ste= vo
=E2=80= =8B
Lojban really "wants" t= o verb, English innately nouns a lot, and as English speakers Lojban, Lojba= n seems to progressively noun more and more.=C2=A0=E2=80=8B
Lojban style: That which Lojbans-type-of-languages, = muchs in wanting to verb. And that which Englishes-type-of-languages, prope= rties in muching in nouning. That which Lojbans-type-of-languages, constant= s in mores-type-of-becomes in nouning, results.
mi'e la .uakci mu'o

On 26 January 20= 16 at 20:35, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
(Playing with the ideas/words:)

Lojban really "wants" to be v= erby, English is innately very nouny, and as English speakers use Lojban, i= t seems to get progressively nounier and nounier.
<= span style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">
Lojban really "wants" to verb, English innately nouns a lot,= and as English speakers Lojban, Lojban seems to progressively noun more an= d more.=C2=A0

stevo=C2=A0

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbrava= do@gmail.com> wrote:
It's the old noun-verb problem: {la teris po'u lo t= irxu} doesn't actually add any real information that {la teris noi tirx= u} doesn't. This comes up again and again: Lojban really "wants&qu= ot; to be verby, English is innately very nouny, and as English speakers us= e Lojban, it seems to get progressively nounier and nounier.

m= i'e la latro'a mu'o

On Tue, Jan 26, 2016 at 1:25 PM, Bruno Pa= nasiewicz <ciuak.prog@gmail.com> wrote:
co=E1=BB=8B ro do
I've notic= ed that ga'a mi many uses of =C2=ABpo'u=C2=BB are very malglico-ish= ;=C2=A0sa'e mu'a, =C2=ABla teris. po'u lo tirxu cu vitke zi'= ;o le barda tcadu=C2=BB seems to have words are calqued, one by one, i.e.
=E2=80=8B=C2= =ABla teris.=C2=BB =E2=80=93 Terry
=C2=A0
=C2=AB=E2=80=8Bpo'u= =C2=BB =E2=80=93 who is
=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B('well, that probably is restrictive!' =E2=80=93 see= 3)=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=C2=ABlo tirxu=C2=BB =E2=80=93 a tiger= =E2=80=8B (and it would be worse, pe'i, if it were =C2=ABle=C2=BB)
=E2=80=8BSame thi= ng =E2=80=8Bin the article of the .=C5=ADitki, Profanity=C2=A0=C2= =B01=C2=A0(that's where I actually noticed it all):
You may also make use of=
=E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80=8B
do po= 'u
=E2=80=8B=C2=BB=E2=80=8B
= to start a phrase meaning You bastard, bitch, etc. The particle =E2=80=8B=C2=AB=E2=80=8B
po'u<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:'times new roman',= serif;font-size:small;display:inline">=E2=80=8B=C2=BB=E2=80=8B
roughl= y translates to
=E2=80=8B =E2=80= =8B
the, as in
= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
Sonic the Hedgehog.
pe'i, there =E2=80=8Bare three issu= es in here:
1= . Overusing =C2=ABdu=C2=BB (and =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B du=C2=BB here), where it&= #39;s not needed, just like in English with be;
2. Using =C2=ABpo'u=C2=BB, wh= ere it's totally superfluous and even longer (!) =E2=80=93 we think of = Terry, some tiger, and assert they're the same: that doesn't really= make sense!;
3. Using a restrictive relative/identity clause.
=E2=80=8BAs for 3, if we say =C2=ABla teris.=C2=BB, t= hen we know, which Terry it is by referring by his name, because we're = telling the story!=E2=80=93 so it deserves the use of =C2=ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2= =BB. Similarly, =C2=ABdo no=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB would fit in here, and if I ever= start saying =C2=ABle broda=C2=BB (and not =C2=ABlo broda=C2=BB, because t= hen I'd use =C2=ABpo=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB to clarify), I'd continue with = =C2=ABno=E1=BB=8B=C2=BB as well.
ta'o, the= non-CLL version of that story gets it right, saying =C2=ABla .teris. no=E1= =BB=8B tigra=C2=BB.
What do you think?
le'o cu'i
mi'e la .uakci mu'= o

= =C2=B01=C2=A0https://mw.lojban.org/papri/profanity

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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
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--001a113f16da088104052a41e1ff--