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[2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q64si576004wmg.0.2016.02.03.01.18.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 03 Feb 2016 01:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c09::235; Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id 128so154507287wmz.1 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 01:18:30 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.77.137 with SMTP id s9mr540592wjw.171.1454491109876; Wed, 03 Feb 2016 01:18:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.92.136 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Feb 2016 01:17:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <84590e65-e905-42e9-8738-55eaa5bec2f7@googlegroups.com> References: <82905720-4d75-4196-9886-cc8c034d9f83@googlegroups.com> <6e9ca8d6-4dcc-4103-a990-4df0ffb16899@googlegroups.com> <56AF570C.1050409@gmail.com> <0c5400d9-fec8-4215-8878-3918c043b226@googlegroups.com> <84590e65-e905-42e9-8738-55eaa5bec2f7@googlegroups.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 12:17:50 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Blojban=5D_The_experimental_version_of_Camxes=2DJS_?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=94_=5Bfork_from_the_thread_=22Terminator_for_la=22=5D?= To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0d2eceee878052ada1977 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c09::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.3 X-Spam_score_int: 3 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "stodi.digitalkingdom.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. 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Content preview: 2016-02-02 13:09 GMT+03:00 guskant : > > > Le mardi 2 février 2016 06:39:15 UTC, la gleki a écrit : >> >> >> 2016-02-01 18:34 GMT+03:00 guskant : >> >>> The problem is that Gleki the dictator have been maintained the parser >>> on the official lojban.org server so that it fit to his personal >>> beginner's course, asserting that the grammar of experimental camxes-js is >>> of new Lojban, as if it were de facto standard, or would be official soon. >>> >> >> It's simply not true. >> >> > > > There is no evidence that it's not true, while there are evidences that > it's true. > Because you have concealed the evidences for that on lojban.org, I use > the wayback machine here: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20151031175123/https://mw.lojban.org/papri/La_Bangu > > https://web.archive.org/web/20150226233559/http://mw.lojban.org/papri/The_Crash_Course_(a_draft) > > The first archive above shows that your personal beginner's course deals > with "modern dialects of Lojban". > [...] Content analysis details: (0.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 URIBL_BLOCKED ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [URIs: googlegroups.com] -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 RBL: Good reputation (+3) [74.125.82.57 listed in wl.mailspike.net] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (gleki.is.my.name[at]gmail.com) 0.0 DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED No valid author signature, adsp_override is CUSTOM_MED -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 2.0 HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH BODY: No description available. 0.1 DKIM_SIGNED Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid -0.1 DKIM_VALID Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature -0.0 RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL Mailspike good senders 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different --047d7bf0d2eceee878052ada1977 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2016-02-02 13:09 GMT+03:00 guskant : > > > Le mardi 2 f=C3=A9vrier 2016 06:39:15 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : >> >> >> 2016-02-01 18:34 GMT+03:00 guskant : >> >>> The problem is that Gleki the dictator have been maintained the parser >>> on the official lojban.org server so that it fit to his personal >>> beginner's course, asserting that the grammar of experimental camxes-js= is >>> of new Lojban, as if it were de facto standard, or would be official so= on. >>> >> >> It's simply not true. >> >> > > > There is no evidence that it's not true, while there are evidences that > it's true. > Because you have concealed the evidences for that on lojban.org, I use > the wayback machine here: > > https://web.archive.org/web/20151031175123/https://mw.lojban.org/papri/La= _Bangu > > https://web.archive.org/web/20150226233559/http://mw.lojban.org/papri/The= _Crash_Course_(a_draft) > > The first archive above shows that your personal beginner's course deals > with "modern dialects of Lojban". > Of course. I use users' feedback to improve it. It has been so and will be so. That's the nature of the course. If a person uses this course then he/she sends feedback back. All constructive criticism is taken into consideration. Yelling "it's wrong" is not taken into account. > The second one shows that the followers of your personal beginner's cours= e > should use the parser > http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html , that is > experimental camxes-js, for checking the grammar of their sentences. > The Crash Course is a draft. I wasn't careful enough to study this parser. By now, the "more official" ilmentufa parser is more or less fine so I changed to it. Most "problems" with the course is due to lack of care because the language is big. Not because of hidden intentions that don't exist. > Besides, you made some modifications on the experimental camxes-js that > were reflected on the parser on lojban.org. > https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa/commits/master/camxes-exp.js.peg > > Those three records are evidences for your dictatorship that you abused > your authority on lojban.org by freely modified the tool on official > server for your personal beginner's course. > > > >> We can no more see that egocentric version of his personal beginner's >>> course, because he has already concealed the evidence. >>> >> >> Because it's not egocentric and on the contrary altruistic. >> What can even be egocentric in an activity for which personally I gain >> nothing. >> >> > > > You gained "modern Lojban" suitable to your ideal, and deprived me of my > citizenship of Lojban community. The evidences are below. > > You differentiated Zantufa grammar on #lojban channel of IRC: > --- Day changed Mon Aug 10 2015 > 10:43 < gleki> lo catni gerna cu te frica ma'oi GUhA ma'oi GA i ma'i la > zantufa lo cmavo be ma'oi GUhA cu na'e se nitcu jecu ku'i binxo lo cmavo = be > ma'oi GA i lu ro mo cu ge mo gi mo li'u ja lu ro mo ge cu mo gi mo li'u c= u > se stura lo simsa be tu'a lo catni gerna sei ku'i na'e dunli > 10:43 < gleki> i di'u se cusku la guskant > 10:43 < gleki> i ja'o lo guskanbau cu banzu frica lo jbobau > > This record and above three records are evidences for your egocentrism of > asserting that I am not Lojbanist, while you keep some dialects that you > permit to be modern Lojban. > Those are not my dialects. Those are from the community. You banned yourself from the community by not providing any feedback whereas a lot of people (at least 20) throughout the history of the development of the Crash Course has contributed to it. If there are "dialects" in the Course and everyone thinks they are fine then I won't delete them. However, when someone notices a problem and suggests a solution or others suggest a solution then the solution is implemented. E.g. recently following users' feedback I removed experimental word {mi'ai} because users in general thought that it wasn't that useful. If something else problematic is discovered then it will be reflected as it HAS ALWAYS been so. When the number of issues drops to "not more than 1 issue once every two months" then IMO it will be time to call it "beta version" of the Course. But currently it's still a draft (not that IMO any other courses in English are much more perfect). > > >> The fact that Gleki's course reduced its egocentrism is an improved >>> point, though his dictatorship will not stop as long as he continues >>> administrating "vrici" server of lojban.org. >>> >> >> You simply don't understand who is administrating vrici. It's Robin. not >> me. You as well can get an account there and put everything relevant to >> Lojban you like. >> >> > > I don't know about the whole administratorship on that server. However, a= t > least your modifications on tools are all reflected on the web contents o= f > lojban.org. > http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/ > (I don't know why that folder is kept visible to public.) > > > >> Actually the problem occurred as I wrote to Gleki: >>> >> >> You as well publish different unofficial resources on lojban.org >> >> The only reason for me to publish it there was and is to provide a faste= r >> way of accessing them. >> >> > > I only modified pages of mediawiki with notes of "unofficial" when > necessary, while you modified any tools on lojban.org as you like. You > have the whole power on lojban.org web contents > No, it's not true. Those are your fantasies. The folder mw.lojban.org/extensions/ is visible because it was faster to access them by users. By various reasons it's indeed better to move them to other hostings. But I had no time for doing so. The whole code is open so everyone is free to do so. DON'T COMPLAIN. INSTEAD DO BETTER. > , and abused the power for your personal unofficial contents. I call it > dictatorship, and I have no other suitable word to express your activitie= s. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bf0d2eceee878052ada1977 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2016-02-02 13:09 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com><= /span>:


Le mardi 2 f=C3=A9vrie= r 2016 06:39:15 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0:

2016-02-01 18:= 34 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni...@gma= il.com>:
The problem is that Gleki t= he dictator have been maintained the parser on the official lojban.org server so = that it fit to his personal beginner's course, asserting that the gramm= ar of experimental camxes-js is of new Lojban, as if it were de facto stand= ard, or would be official soon.

It= 9;s simply not true.
=C2=A0
<= div>

There is no evidence that it&= #39;s not true, while there are evidences that it's true.
Bec= ause you have concealed the evidences for that on lojban.org, I use the wayback machine here:
The first archive above shows that your personal beginner'= s course deals with "modern dialects of Lojban".=C2=A0

Of course. I use users' feedbac= k to improve it. It has been so and will be so. That's the nature of th= e course.

If a person uses this course then he/she= sends feedback back.

All constructive criticism i= s taken into consideration. Yelling "it's wrong" is not taken= into account.

=

The second one shows that the followers of your persona= l beginner's course should use the parser http://mw.lojban= .org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html , that is experimental camxes= -js, for checking the grammar of their sentences.

The Crash Course is a draft. I wasn't careful = enough to study this parser. By now, the "more official" ilmentuf= a parser is more or less fine so I changed to it.

= Most "problems" with the course is due to lack of care because th= e language is big.

Not because of hidden intention= s that don't exist.


Besides, you made some modifications on the exp= erimental camxes-js that were reflected on the parser on lojban.org.

Those three records are evidences for your di= ctatorship that you abused your authority on lojban.org by freely modified the tool on official se= rver for your personal beginner's course.

=C2=A0
We can no more see that egocen= tric version of his personal beginner's course, because he has already = concealed the evidence.

Because it= 9;s not egocentric and on the contrary altruistic.
What can even = be egocentric in an activity for which personally I gain nothing.
=C2=A0


You gained "modern Lojban" suitable to your ideal= , and deprived me of my citizenship of Lojban community. The evidences are = below.

You differentiated Zantufa grammar on #lojb= an channel of IRC:
--- Day changed Mon Aug 10 2015
10:4= 3 < gleki> lo catni gerna cu te frica ma'oi GUhA ma'oi GA i m= a'i la zantufa lo cmavo be ma'oi GUhA cu na'e se nitcu jecu ku&= #39;i binxo lo cmavo be ma'oi GA i lu ro mo cu ge mo gi mo li'u ja = lu ro mo ge cu mo gi mo li'u cu se stura lo simsa be tu'a lo catni = gerna sei ku'i na'e dunli
10:43 < gleki> i di'u= se cusku la guskant
10:43 < gleki> i ja'o lo guskanbau= cu banzu frica lo jbobau

This record and above th= ree records are evidences for your egocentrism of asserting that I am not L= ojbanist, while you keep some dialects that you permit to be modern Lojban.=

Those are not my dialect= s. Those are from the community.

You banned yourse= lf =C2=A0from the community by not providing any feedback whereas a lot of = people (at least 20) throughout the history of the development of the Crash= Course has contributed to it.

If there are "= dialects" in the Course and everyone thinks they are fine then I won&#= 39;t delete them.

However, when someone notices a = problem and suggests a solution or others suggest a solution then the solut= ion is implemented.
E.g. recently following users' feedback I= removed experimental word {mi'ai} because users in general thought tha= t it wasn't that useful.

If something else pro= blematic is discovered then it will be reflected as it HAS ALWAYS been so.<= /div>

When the number of issues drops to "not more = than 1 issue once every two months" then IMO it will be time to call i= t "beta version" of the Course. But currently it's still a dr= aft =C2=A0(not that IMO any other courses in English are much more perfect)= .


=C2=A0
=
The fact that Gleki&= #39;s course reduced its egocentrism is an improved point, though his dicta= torship will not stop as long as he continues administrating "vrici&qu= ot; server of lojban.org.

You simply don= 9;t understand who is administrating vrici. It's Robin. not me. You as = well can get an account there and put everything relevant to Lojban you lik= e.



I don't know about the whole administratorshi= p on that server. However, at least your modifications on tools are all ref= lected on the web contents of lojban.org.
(I don't = know why that folder is kept visible to public.)

=
=C2=A0
=
Actually the p= roblem occurred as I wrote to Gleki:
You as well publish different unofficial resources on lojban.org

<= /div>
The only reason for me to publish it there was and is to provide = a faster way of accessing them.



I only modified pages of mediawiki wi= th notes of "unofficial" when necessary, while you modified any t= ools on lojban.org as y= ou like. You have the whole power on lojban.org web contents

No, it's not true. Those are your fantasies.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http= s://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--047d7bf0d2eceee878052ada1977--