Received: from mail-qg0-f56.google.com ([209.85.192.56]:33653) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1aSsTU-0004IJ-IQ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:32:05 -0800 Received: by mail-qg0-f56.google.com with SMTP id c5sf10627087qgf.0 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:31:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=k8Be5EkI/5bYe4eyyf+EHAKSqfXhRESUEr8kzlJjZig=; b=l3ty6hKFJtqUNiFX3dNmGY6zaW3H0sNggt0YwkMUtNxEb2+Q8vV2aNrVsJGV6wJBFs RMMAZRsAggnf7yeNNBqMKG+DQiJpi37RSdlFwSFay4kDu4WSyz9x/c3dr2HenLJMOq6p pV0WBHpj/z8H8+L+XehMSd/e/1rucpWpOL5j2BSMR4i8L6ZppOaTraBqgPupcJvDB34C R4Broq3H/wjYkJHcERQeLru/vqRD86DVShLcJnQw48DRZgtZb+aNJquOfFHe/VFKcWjj qTEmnUfO8I7cv+gPv/FeEpyP0cvUMS86OMXJNE1px++iA5G9uLCXXwWJXShZxilxOqyD c+2w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-type:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:x-spam-checked-in-group:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=k8Be5EkI/5bYe4eyyf+EHAKSqfXhRESUEr8kzlJjZig=; b=LSB82MVvn+1Ztg2YTqw9amOPXNJtlth/aPTZQZ15V9pZg8JvddkGZ6jsbON0wToffK R3qEY0pzwBNmOBnMRqFLsMYSjWIYrx1ewQyNkF54MPvJXMDZFWuwH0F9IYpWGn460bf5 GHlkvknWUMWRcdnRIeWHxoSwmiYiaZHTin9iCQiiK7iCRVvoeGGVSEkCHF8IPXwXv0ia s6ol4Mhn50BItsYrXLqozNaAcajh3guwulIMbfKbg458vuvBSAhkOrMfsnZVAzwpd+8b vINFpvQbltBDpc+PpaPyWU7b22Uks40Cx7IrNqbftJ7RwBNPaAGnSobcyqEAABrUAlYh Zo/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQPcxVjI2XcvnK6FPShbl/bGPYyLb3Zt8ObZLRcQu1w6/S7WKhPArFvK0kjklxlUA== X-Received: by 10.50.43.165 with SMTP id x5mr21543igl.9.1454963510174; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:31:50 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.107.134.93 with SMTP id i90ls1924627iod.41.gmail; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:31:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.107.14.141 with SMTP id 135mr31355891ioo.22.1454963509152; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:31:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com. [2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ht5si1039401igb.1.2016.02.08.12.31.49 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:31:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d; Received: by mail-ob0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id wb13so169391625obb.1 for ; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:31:49 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.60.58.103 with SMTP id p7mr27720090oeq.2.1454963508997; Mon, 08 Feb 2016 12:31:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.58.3 with HTTP; Mon, 8 Feb 2016 12:31:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <910695992.1046188.1454957099746.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <910695992.1046188.1454957099746.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: MorphemeAddict Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2016 14:31:19 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Do Lojban and Loglan sound alike? To: lojban@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158adcc1d7d1b052b4817e0 X-Original-Sender: lytlesw@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lytlesw@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lytlesw@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Spam-Checked-In-Group: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_bar: - --089e0158adcc1d7d1b052b4817e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Exactly. That's why I specified "to a person who knows neither". Aside from the apostrophe/h and more frequent sh/'c' sound, what's the real difference? They have the same word shapes, basically the same sounds. Is there any distinctive intonation pattern in either language? stevo On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 12:44 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban < lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote: > It seems the question is about the general sound, not about individual > sentences, which are obviously different, given the relex and all. > > > > On Monday, February 8, 2016 12:00 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > 2016-02-08 19:43 GMT+03:00 MorphemeAddict : > > It seems to me that, except for a few minor differences like long vowels > and syllable-initial /h/, Loglan and Lojban should sound almost identical > to a person who knows neither. Is this true, or is there a bigger > difference I'm missing? > > > They sound very different. > > Try the tool http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/ircbot/naxle.html > > and after typing something in Lojban press "Loglan < Lojban" to try > automatic conversion to Loglan. although the conversion is not perfect it > can show you the difference. > > E.g. {mi prami do} => {mi cluva tu}. > > > stevo > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e0158adcc1d7d1b052b4817e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Exactly. That's why I specified "to a person who kn= ows neither".=C2=A0

Aside from the apostrophe/h and more fr= equent sh/'c' sound, what's the real difference? They have the = same word shapes, basically the same sounds. Is there any distinctive inton= ation pattern in either language?=C2=A0

stevo

On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 1= 2:44 PM, 'John E Clifford' via lojban <lojban@googlegroups.c= om> wrote:
It s= eems the question is about the general sound, not about individual sentence= s, which are obviously different, given the relex and all.



On= Monday, February 8, 2016 12:00 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:




2016-02-08 19:43 GMT+03:00 Morph= emeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>:
It seems to me that, except for a few minor differenc= es like long vowels and syllable-initial /h/, Loglan and Lojban should soun= d almost identical to a person who knows neither. Is this true, or is there= a bigger difference I'm missing?=C2=A0
<= div>
They sound very different.


and after typing something in Lojb= an press "Loglan < Lojban" =C2=A0to try automatic conversion t= o Loglan. although the conversion is not perfect it can show you the differ= ence.

E.g. {mi prami do} =3D> {m= i cluva tu}.


<= div>stevo
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